I’m looking for guidance and input concerning the Poway city council elections. I understand that certain candidates are opposed to the proposed Poway Wal-Mart Superstore (for whatever reasons they care to claim).
I’m interested in supporting candidates who will vote FOR the Wal-Mart enterprise. I care not what the claimed reasons are.
My pro-Wal-Mart position is based on consumer choice, free markets and property rights. Furthermore, anyone who is anti-Wal-Mart is probably seeking the support of the Poway public employee labor unions (and the county unions as well). That’s enough to vote against any such supporter.
Is there someone here on this blog who can provide guidance on this matter?
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As far as I know, Dave Grosch (http://www.grosch4poway.com/) is the only one who is opposed to the expansion.
I’ll assume you’ve seen my little piece here-
http://sdrostra.com/?p=4387
I am a candidate for Poway City Council.
Most folks I’ve talked to in Poway realize the importance of a vital business community to maintaining our quality of life. I share that view. I’ve made it very clear in my campaign materials I believe we need to give businesses in Poway “building blocks” not “road blocks” – big businesses and small businesses alike.
As far as the other candidates, Grosch is of course anti-Walmart. Collins has historically been against Walmart. Babich seems to have the same view. I suspect Willoughby is also against WalMart. The others are a question mark.
Feel free to contact me directly if you have any further questions. My web site is http://www.VoteVaus.com or you can contact me via email votevaus@gmail.com
I would welcome your support.
Steve Vaus
Author
Thanks, Roger. But isn’t that only the folks in the recall election?
I’m interested in ALL the Poway city council folks — incumbents and candidates for this year’s elections. I think there was a letter along these lines in the U-T recently. Can’t recall exactly.
To help clarify, the regular city council elections for Poway are in November, with the filing deadline for those races (including mayor) in August. The only election on the June ballot is the recall, including the Rexford question and the replacement candidate question, should the recall pass. This isn’t to say that those planning on running in November, some already announced, shouldn’t weigh in. They should; and are invited to do so.
What I emailed Steve-
How I look at it, there is more to this than a simple expansion. First of all, we need the tax revenue. How can we increase that? If we allow the expansion of the Walmart, will other businesses lose business, thus decreasing their tax revenue to the city? If so, are we in for a net gain or loss with the expansion. If it is neutral, then what negative and positive impacts will the expansion do for Poway? Now if it is positive, then what are the negative impacts? Do the negative impacts out weigh the positive tax revenue that the expansion will bring? If Poway does allow the expansion, I feel that Walmart will also need to pay for various street improvements due to increased traffic. Poway can not swallow that. And what about the people that live near? How will it impact them? Should we ignore their comments for the sake of increased revenue?
The Walmart expansion isn’t as simple as some think. I think that if the City does consider it (If the positive outweigh the negatives) and if people protest it still, then the City needs to be like Ronald Reagan (Merrilee tends to be the female version) and be the “great communicator” and tell the people the facts and say we need the revenue. If you can help us bring in increased revenue without the expansion, then please do so. People need to get involved. They can’t rely on politicians to come with the solutions. Politicians tend not to think “outside the box”, but the public does.
Author
Roger, nowhere in your list of factors is any weight given to the right of property owners to use their property as they see fit, or the right of a business to offer new, better services (in this case, better because they are cheaper), or the rights of their customers. Businesses would not want to open if they thought that consumers (who “vote” with their dollars) would not support their enterprise.
What you are talking about is the nebulous net good for “the people” — and the revenue for the city coffers. That sort of majoritarian thinking leads to local heavy-handed central planning that Republicans too often oppose in principle but support in application.
This government control often is overly-responsive to special interest groups — enviro-wackos, businesses that don’t want more competition, labor unions that hate Wal-Mart, NIMBY’s, protectionists, etc. These groups will vociferously protest any Wal-Mart store at hearings, giving the planners and politicians the impression that this is the will of the people.
Even if opposition WAS the majority position, I find that insufficient reason to ban a business expansion that sells legal products. The road problem (if any) is minor, and can be worked out with Wal-Mart.
Author
All that being said, a Super-Wal-Mart would doubtless increase city sales tax revenues. Fortunately for Poway, the city of San Diego has banned such stores, so our city’s surrounding communities have a wonderful opportunity to draw big city shoppers to their bergs. It appears that Santee has already figured that out.
Many folks in Rancho Bernardo, Rancho Penasquitos, Mira Mesa, (my) Scripps Ranch, Tierrasanta and other areas of San Diego would make the trek to Poway to shop at such a mecca. While the groceries are sales tax exempt, once there they doubtless would shop the hard goods section of Wal-Mart as well.
These are people who otherwise likely would NOT shop in Poway. And just maybe some of these folks would eat or shop in other stores in Poway, once they got there.
As for myself, I can envision doing both my Wal-Mart AND Costco shopping in Poway rather than San Diego — normally on a “daily double” trip.
Scenario:
A businessperson would like to open a new gas station at a busy intersection that presently has two existing gas stations (different companies) at opposite corners. The city has a land use approval process in place for businesses locating in this area (as mandated by the California Environmental Quality Act). The decision makes its way to the city council. The council’s decision should be based on:
A) Whether or not the new gas station has an impact on the operations of the two existing stations,
B) Net anticipated increased or decreased tax proceeds to the city,
C) The increased competition between the three businesses and the anticipated lower prices to the patrons,
D) All of the above.
The answer is:
E) None of the above. The council’s decision should be based on whether the business meets the land use criteria; that’s it. That’s right, not even increased competition should drive the council’s decision, because the government shouldn’t be trying to make free market decisions for those that can make them — or risk them — by themselves.
Just call me simple.
P.S. 4 pm — And that’s not getting into the appropriateness of CEQA and the land use process in governing the decision. Separate discussion; but the land use approval process IS what the city has to determine the usage; this is a given, like it or not. I am one to believe that as long as environmental impacts are mandated to guide land use decisions than perhaps economic impacts should be as well, but that’s more government mandates, isn’t it?
Not so simple.
Richard, as you know, government is too involved in our lives to let property owners do as they see fit. Why I believe in many of the Libertarian views, I do see the need for government involvement in our lives. I’ve often wondered if the private parties that owned majestic places (Zion, Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Yosemite for example) would have set them aside for the enjoyment of future generations. For the most part, I doubt it. Government came in and protected those areas. Of course, I believe that government has set aside too many “special” units of the National Parks (Remember they do include other sites like birthplaces, but that is politics-pleasing special interest).
Of course, if you knew me, you would know of my bias for the NPS, since I was a seasonal Park Ranger for a few years.
Author
Roger, the parks issue is a red herring. Most of our major parks were established before the property was clearly privately owned. In this day and age, if we were to establish a new park on land that was privately owned, it would generally be expected that government BUY the property — not simply confiscate it.
Yet the confiscation of the USAGE RIGHTS of private property is a common occurrence too often supported by both Democrats and Republicans.
For instance, how do you feel about the downzoning of private property in rural San Diego without compensation from taxpayers? After all, if it’s for the greater good, then the recipients (supposedly everybody) should PAY for such confiscations — at least in my opinion.
You might want to look at Houston, which has NO zoning laws of consequence, and none of the benevolent central planning you are here touting. Over and over the elite try to impose zoning, but the general populace will have none of it. Land use is largely controlled (if at all) by covenants and restrictions — built into the property deeds.
It ain’t perfect, but it works surprisingly well, and has for generations.
Richard, are you trying to convert me???
As Roger states, the Walmart issue is more complex than most people consider. I started forming my reply to this thread and ended up writing a white paper, so let me cut to the chase. The Walmart decision creates a situation where two of the City’s goals could be in conflict.
Goal 2: It is the goal of the City of Poway to provide for an orderly balance of both public and private land uses in convenient and compatible locations throughout the city and to ensure that all such uses serve to protect and enhance the environment character and image of the city.
Goal 5: It is the goal of the City of Poway to achieve a climate for economic growth and stability which will attract high quality commercial and industrial development to serve the employment shopping recreation and service needs of Poway residents and will provide a healthy and diverse economic base for the community.
The key word in goal 2 is “compatible.” I think it’s reasonable to conclude that a super Walmart is out of scale with homes, parks, and small businesses. It would be a much better fit in the business park. If Walmart merely cannibalizes revenue from nearby businesses, then not much is gained in support of a healthy and diverse economic base. The way to increase the city’s revenue is to have more people from outside of Poway shop in Poway. That means more traffic and all of the other associated issues.
Unfortunately, Poway has not articulated a vision of its “downtown” area. The closest thing we have is the Poway Road Specific Plan, created in 1996. If the vision existed, then the Walmart decision would be much easier. The decision, however, will be a step toward an implicit vision of downtown Poway. The question is do you want a car friendly or pedestrian downtown (as called for in the Poway Road Specific Plan)?
Much talk is given to the Poway Business Park; however, sending people there does little to help the small businesses along Poway Road. As people drive by on Poway Road to go to Walmart, they might see a business that will draw them in for a look. That doesn’t happen in the Business Park. A good question would be how to draw those out of towners (Out of Poway, that is) that go to the Business Park, to make that drive north to Poway Road?
WalMart, whatever. We should be talking about more exciting news, like the arrival of In-N-Out Burger in Poway! In a city survey, In-N-Out and a bookstore were the two businesses most desired by residents. It will be located on the southwest corner of Community Road and Scripps Poway Parkway, near Kohl’s and Staples.
Generating new tax revenue one burger at a time…
Author
Great location! That’s up in the business park near Costco. That’s one more reason to shop at Poway Costco while complying with the city central planners and not driving down into the city proper and spending money with the local merchants there.
God forbid I drive on such crowded retail streets in “downtown” Poway and perhaps buy something!
Methinks the city should come up with a catchy city slogan — something like “Poway businesses for Poway people — only.”
Author
To Poway Roger:
Yes, I’d be glad to convert you! Post-conversion apostates are welcome in San Diego Tax Fighters!
Personally I prefer Wal-Mart locate in the business park area. Shorter drive for people in most of San Diego, and closer to Costco and In-N-Out . Rest assured — if it is located in the Poway business park, I’ll not clog Poway Road, or frequent the businesses there.
But Wal-Mart obviously disagrees with the business park location — they want to be available to the people of Poway — greedy capitalists. Imagine — in their proposed location, some Poway folks can actually WALK to Wal-Mart. Pedestrian friendly, and all that.
Wow, “almost” anyone who’s against a supercenter expansion of an existing walmart must be a union lover. Must be nice to have such a simple view of the world. BTW, how often do you shop at the Poway Walmart now and shop along Poway Road? If it expands, will you shop there more often? When walmart first put in their application with poway in 1990, there was a specific maximum size that was approved. The city also chipped in almost a million bucks of road improvements that they wanted walmart to make, that walmart refused to pay for. I don’t remember the city spending that kind of money to bring costco or home depot into poway. How’s that being a free market system when the city gives $$$ to a business to move in, and none to others? No one stopped walmart from expanding to their maximum approved size, so no “property rights” of their existing land-use permit are being denied to them. They have a license to sell all the groceries or clothes, etc, that they want now. BTW, I’m not one of the council candidates. I believe that objections will be a lot less if walmart can mitigate all of the concerns from the upcoming EIR. I’m especially interested in seeing how reducing the total retail sales-taxable space (eliminating the auto center, eliminating the outdoor nursery section), while expanding the non-taxable grocery section is going to help out the coffers of the city tax-wise.
Author
To answer your question, I shop the Poway Wal-Mart about once every two months — normally in conjunction with a trip to the Costco up in the business park.
But if Poway let’s Wal-Mart go super-size, I’ll shop there probably every two weeks for groceries. While there, I’ll buy goods from the “department store” side as well.
Think of groceries as a city “loss leader” to draw in patrons who will buy other goods at Wal-Mart, or will shop at nearby locations — or do as I have done — visit a restaurant close by.
Author
No one seems to care much that such a grocery option can save a family hundreds of dollars annually. One estimate is that a family of four who shops at Wal-Mart saves $2,300 a year on all purchases.
If customers have to spend less on groceries, they are better off. In addition, that means they have more money for alternative items — including hard goods, eating out, visiting the Ultra Movie Theatre, etc.
I guess some affluent folks who profess to care so much for the poor working stiffs, don’t care enough to let buyers and sellers make transactions that allow limited dollars to buy more goods. That’s not a factor in all this discussion concerning Wal-Mart.
Instead, the primary factor (aside from catering to labor unions) seems to be getting the maximum tax dollars for the city. Very sad.
Joe brings up a great point, which I totally forgot about. Groceries are tax fee, for the most part. Would having Groceries (Super center) really bring in enough new customers to buy other things to really increase Poway tax revenues?
To continue this sad discussion — based primarily in what’s good for the Poway government (and for the overpaid, overpensioned public employees who absorb probably 80% of the city budget) rather than what is good for the populace . . . .
To review: A Poway Wal-Mart Superstore would be a magnet for shoppers from northern San Diego, where such stores are banned. Even when one goes to just a regular grocery store, one buys taxable items — cleaning supplies, sundries, etc.
And when someone shops for groceries at Wal-Mart, I’m sure that seldom do they get out of the store without making “department store” taxable purchases as well.
Ask Wal-Mart about how many people a superstore draws vs. a regular Wal-Mart. I’d expect at least a 50% increase in patronage.
Roger…. Some bullets:
-Taxable sales from WalMarts are significant, even when Supercenters (meaning groceries as well) are located.
-Lower pricing for the consumer is something that elected officials should consider, not simply tax revenue to the government.
-WalMarts are not typically controversial UNTIL supercenters are proposed, simply because non-grocery Walmarts aren’t usually a big deal with labor unions. It is the Grocers Unions that are typically vehemently opposed to grocery sales using non-union employees.
-Where supercenters and grocered WalMarts have been kept out by local ordinance, it has been by virtue of GENERAL laws prohibiting any “Big Box” users with over a certain percentage of floor space dedicated to non-taxable sales. Meaning, the law isn’t written specific to Wal-Mart (which would be unconstitutional), but very effectively targets non-union, grocered, supercenter WalMarts, as they are the ones that by virtue of not being able to conduct non-taxable sales based on their pro-forma of needed floor space for groceries, are barred from operations.
-See City of San Diego.
Poway is not talking about banning supercenters; they are just looking at the idea of yes/no to expanding their existing site.
Regarding groceries and taxes, I’d like to see what the increase in tax revenue is when a walmart expands to a supercenter. Also, have we addressed the issue of the possible closing of businesses in Poway due to expansion? That will cause a decrease in tax revenue.
Also, I’ve been in these supercenters and what I’ve seen is that their food prices tend to go up after the local businesses shut down. How is that good for the consumer?
There are lots of factors to consider. It’s not a simple thing.
Understood there is no consideration of a ban. However, elected officials can vote on singular land use decisions by using the same arguments that drive general bans. Such as, “We can’t approve the proposal because over 40% of the floor space is dedicated to non-taxable sales, which isn’t providing revenues to the city, and thus we can’t justify that much prime space being used.” It is called the fiscalization of land use. It is often used to deny private businesses from operating as they see fit. Jus’ sayin’.
“Ask Wal-Mart about how many people a superstore draws vs. a regular Wal-Mart. I’d expect at least a 50% increase in patronage.”
One must remember that this particular Walmart is located right in the middle of a residential neighborhood. There are homes directly across the street on three sides of it. I live nearby (our home was purchased before Walmart came in) and more than anything am concerned about the traffic increase. It’s already so congested on Poway Rd and Community Rd (which I must get through to go anywhere from my home). I love bargains. I don’t hate Walmart at all.
It’s just in an inappropriate location to expand. There’s no room to widen the streets and the parking lot which is already crowded will actually be reduced. Where will 50 percent more cars park, in front of people’s nearby homes?