In fixing our immigration challenges, our number one priority must be to improve our border security — ensuring the United States remains secure from the threat of drugs, guns, and criminals coming through our borders.
The federal government has failed in its basic obligation to secure our border. It’s time to demand accountability and results – no more excuses. A secure border must be the prerequisite and foundation for any additional reform of immigration laws.
Sign my petition and help me tell Congress it’s time to act. Now.
Comments 70
The more water I save the higher my rates go. I am at the point I can no longer afford to save the water. It costs too much.
Maybe if we stopped building till we solved the water problem might help, but I do realize that common sense won’t work here in America.
Twilight Zone again on the comment.
Dear Mr. DeMaio: Unless one is a Native American, we were all immigrants at one time. I’m sure everyone is sick of that argument, including me, but , in fact it is true. As was pointed out in another post, the War on Drugs has failed miserably and it would appear as if the “tipping point” has come. We, and other countries are reaping the rewards of a failed War. If we are ever going to stop this, we have to address the real problem, which is “Why do people feel such a need to use mind altering drugs in the first place?” I doubt if someone wakes up and says “I think I will become a drug addict today”. What are the reasons, and we can do something about that.
I am not exactly sure how one goes about securing our borders. Do you want something like the Great Wall of China? I am not being facetious when I ask, and I mean no disrespect. But, even if we could do it, and I would love to know your thoughts on how to do it, what then? The world would hate us, there would be a whole lot less tourists and businesses coming to the US, and so many more ramifications of what might end up looking like a police state. Would would want us all to carry our passports everywhere we went? And, would certain groups be signaled out as looking suspicious? This is already being done in parts of our country.
Perhaps the bigger question is to ask, why are they coming, especially these children. I cannot even imagine sending my children to another country without me. So, I guess it must be pretty horrific where they live right now. I do understand that the US cannot house the entire world. But, there is a lot of open space in the middle of this country. Surely we could extend a little kindness and perhaps send these children to places in the midwest, such as Wyoming, Kansas, Nebraska, you get my drift.
However, until we address the real problem, they will keep coming and I am not certain, unless we wall off our country, sort of like West Berlin after WW2 (and we all know how that ended) that your idea is the best idea. It takes away from the real issue, which is “why are they coming”.
Ms. Greene,
I think you mean “native American.” A “Native American” typically refers to being a descendent of one of the many tribes of indigenous people who were here before the 1500s. It has no relativity to citizenship. A “Native American” could have been born anywhere and could be a citizen of any country. A “native American” means you were not an immigrant to the United States and were born here. For example, I am a native American because I was born in the United States and never immigrated, but I am not a Native American because my ancestors came from Europe.
Michael,
I am quite certain that Lorri meant Native American with a capital “N.” Maybe she should have said “we all have ancestors who at one time or another were immigrants,” but I think she made her point quite well.
My starving ancestors and the huddled masses on the boats with them followed all applicable immigration laws. So her point was lost on me.
If there’s a better way to run immigration law, I’m all ears. But not enforcing the laws so children think it’s ok to risk death to come live in a federal detention center while others abide and toil is decidedly not good.
The left needs to move away from race based detention centers. History never looks kindly on it.
The left? The law that set up these current detention centers was passed by a Republican Congress and signed by George W. Bush.
I can’t verify what you are saying about the law, but I can verify that there was no overflow until Democrats invited all of South America to abandon their children because the U.S. government will take care of them. And I can verify that Democrats are astounded that most Americans are unhappy with the idea of government detention centers full of orphaned children.
What a very humane immigration policy the administration is promoting.
This is why Obama gets criticized for not following the laws that he doesn’t like. If he wants to change immigration law, draft a bill that most of the people’s representatives like. Don’t just ignore the law. Destitute children separated from their parents and risking their life to show up on our doorstep only to be imprisoned is yet another unintended consequence of ill thought out Democrat public policy.
“until Democrats invited all of South America to abandon their children because the U.S. government will take care of them.”
Come on, Michael. You are better than Fox News talking points.
I prefer to think that sometimes Fox News talking points are as good as me.
I know that they are never as wise as you.
Mr. Schwartz: I’m sorry if I didn’t use the correct vocabulary about what have also been called the “First People”. In fact, my grandmother was Cherokee, and she used to call herself a Native American, so I guess that’s why I used that phrase.
Going back to Mr. DeMaio’s post, however, I was wondering if you have any solutions to the situation we are faced with at this time in our country? Whether one likes it or not, these children are here, and most likely others will follow. Since I don’t believe either of us can stop that, could you possibly share your thought about what we might do about it? Even if we sent these kids back, others will show up. And, personally I still believe it goes back to the violence in their own countries. From what I have read, so much of this violence stems from the drug cartels. Please correct me if I am wrong about that.
If I’m right, I suggest we put our money on services to help people get off drugs, find out why they want to use them anyway, and give them resources that might help them. Then, and only then, will we have won the War on Drugs. If no one bought these drugs, then the cartels would not exist. It’s kind of like my own profession, psychology. If everyone was happy, I would be out of business, which would be fine with me, but many of my colleagues might not like it. The same could be said about many helping professions, even the police. If there was no crime, we would not need police. However, I doubt if any of us will ever be that enlightened.
All I am really attempting to say, in a very long winded way, is that instead of putting the horse before the cart, let’s try putting the cart before the horse. As long as there are so many drug users, there will be cartels, and that leads to violence in the countries from where these people came.
Geez, I have to comment on this.
1st – Carl – a petition? really? how will a petition work to solve this border/humanitarian crisis? please enlighten us.
2nd – Lorri – your comment – (re: illegal immigrants)
“But, there is a lot of open space in the middle of this country…”
Not after “The Wildlands Project is fully implemented.
(50% of our land- no human habitation.
25% – only very limited
25% of our land available for all of us to squeeze on to.- which means losing our private property rights. Look it up.)
3rd – Michael – Obama won’t draft a law, he just signs executive orders. works much better for him that way. It fundamentally transforms America much faster. Before we catch on.
To all – instead of nitpicking each comment (ie native..) I saw we need to come together with ideas.
Ask – What is the cause of the problem and how do we solve it? (solution – see link below – pages 4-7) .
One big problem –
America was founded on Christian beliefs. but in schools, they took away the rules of God – the ten commandments. ‘thou shall not steal, kill, covet, etc”. We learned in school that those laws were stupid and we need to ignore them.
So ignore them we did., now look – the violence of American upon American has become truly staggering. and it will get much much worse.
Could we reverse that trend by now teaching our kids about the laws of God again? and what it means to be an American? Here it is 2014- we face the Bush’s/Clinton/Obama fundamental transformation. If we do not reverse this agenda by educating all Americans right now, a day will come – (I am hearing before the end of this year) we cross the threshold into global governance. Remember ‘1984’ ? That will be our new life and the lives of your children and your grandchildren and your great-grandchildren, and so on.
SOLUTION: read it, share it and unite with other Americans.
Carl – need your voice on this, especially if you become our next Congressman (please do not ask us to focus on petitions, Congressional allowances, etc ,any more) http://www.patriotsunion.org/DECLARATION-RESTORE-THE-CONSTITUTIONAL-REPUBLIC.pdf
After reading pages 4-7 – please share your comments
I know it’s a D’Bagger talking point that everything is Bush’s fault even though Obama has been President for 6 years now. But the reality is that the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 was sponsored by Democratic Representative Howard Berman. It was co-sponsored by 3 Republicans and 3 Democrats. It passed the Congress unanimously and was signed by President Bush on December 23, 2008. If Bush is going to get the blame for this because he signed the bill back in 2008, maybe we could make room for blaming Howard Berman and his 6 co-sponsors and every single Representative and Senator who was in office back then. Or maybe we could all start living in the here and now and recognize that the recent wave of children crossing our southern border are coming to this country to reunite with family already living here. Here’s a link to the act: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr7311#overview And a link to a recent study by UTEP on the problem follows. Pages 3 and 4 are especially instructive because they show how much the problem has increased in the past three years from a trickle to a flood and because they show that the kids are coming here to reunite with family and because our immigration enforcement is so lax. http://ncbsi.utep.edu/documents/UAC%20Project%20Site%20Visits/UTEP%20NCBSI%20Final%20Report%20March%2020%202014.pdf. If anybody cares to find out more they can look at the Border Patrol survey I linked in another comment thread on this issue.
“Or maybe we could all start living in the here and now and recognize that the recent wave of children crossing our southern border are coming to this country to reunite with family already living here.”
I thought they were all coming here for welfare, Obamacare and to steal from hard working Americans. Did Fox News have it wrong?
“http://www.patriotsunion.org/DECLARATION-RESTORE-THE-CONSTITUTIONAL-REPUBLIC.pdf
After reading pages 4-7 – please share your comments”
Joe, Mr. McCarthy, is that you?
You lost us at, “In addition to the known fact that the Obama/Biden ticket was advanced by way of fraudulent representations concerning the constitutional eligibility of Barack Hussein Obama II…”
We’d like credible discussion here.
May we suggest InfoWars as a website more your style?
My point and the real issue is “follow the law”. If the law needs to be changed, change it. But follow it. Preparing resources for a law, but then broadcasting that we won’t follow/enforce that law does not work, even if your intentions are good. It doesn’t work with immigration law, drug law, gun law, tax law, securities law, environmental law, etc, etc, etc.
There is a reason and a cause that this is happening right now at this specific time in history. If you look at the countries of origin, the people coming over, the way they got here, our laws, our border, etc…nothing has changed. The only two things that have changed are the rhetoric from the executive branch to the world and the directions to the Border Patrol department they oversee.
I don’t care what color the skin is of the suffering kids put in harm’s way or what language they speak. I am certainly not afraid that a malnourished child who can’t speak English will take my job.
Side note: if anyone reading this attends a church regularly and your church isn’t offering significant help to these needy people, remind them of that the next time they ask you for money or are mad that the government has become too intrusive.
Michael,
The law is being followed. Look up William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008.
FYI…
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/08/us/immigrant-surge-rooted-in-law-to-curb-child-trafficking.html?_r=0
From the Washington Post. Worth a read. As Christians we have failed. Jesus is knocking at our door and we are turning out backs on him.
[1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/02/protesters-in-california-block-busloads-of-immigrant-children-and-families/?tid=sm_fb
Jesus said “love thy neighbor as thyself”. He didn’t say “only if it is in your country”. I am saddened by the events that have occurred, and I am a Christian. I am saddened that we, as a nation, don’t stand up and do the right thing. What have these children done? How many of you are parents? I have 2 beautiful daughters. I can tell you, in my wildest imagination I cannot imagine sending them by themselves to a foreign country . Why are they doing this? And yet, we battle over “This land is my land”.
I am also a Catholic. The Church is doing a great deal to help. So, if you are to part of the solution, you are part of the problem. I will end now, as this makes me cry, and “big girls don’t cry” right?
I can see that some people are not yet ready for this solution\
.(pg 4-7)
But at the least, you should learn and recognize that the agenda being played out is the Cloward-Piven strategy – overwhelm the system (border crossings)
Like it or not, you won’t change it (mass amnesty?) unless leadership is replaced with those who follow the law and adhere to the constitution.
I was really speaking broader.
I realize that this law is being followed, but I’m talking about broader immigration and border protection law in general. We have a system for immigration and laws concerning our border. If we have thousands of non-citizen, starving children making it into our country…it’s safe to say the border isn’t as secure as the executive branch is supposed to keep it. If parents feel secure in dumping their children off into our country, it is also safe to say that the executive branch is sending the wrong message regarding our process.
From the article, “The Obama administration says the law is partly responsible for tying its hands in dealing with the current influx of children.”
It’s not the tied hands that the administration caused, it’s the influx.
However, I can see someone making the point that the law caused the influx over time.
Lorri,
I wish more people would realize that people are people regardless of where they happened to be born. Thank you for pointing that out.
Michael,
“If we have thousands of non-citizen, starving children making it into our country…it’s safe to say the border isn’t as secure as the executive branch is supposed to keep it.”
Wrong! All of these children were stopped. No one, as far as we know, got past the Border Patrol and into the Country undetected. The law simply doesn’t allow for immediate deportation.
“I am not exactly sure how one goes about securing our borders.”
Just look to the Southern border of Mexico. Start there
Lee:
How is “In addition to the known fact that the Obama/Biden ticket was advanced by way of fraudulent representations concerning the constitutional eligibility of Barack Hussein Obama II” a solution?
It reads like a statement. Please explain how it is a “known fact”?
Brian,
If the southern border of Mexico is so secure, how did all those people from Central America get to our southern border?
HQ,
“Wrong! All of these children were stopped. No one, as far as we know, got past the Border Patrol and into the Country undetected. The law simply doesn’t allow for immediate deportation.”
Haven’t we come back full circle to my comment: “The left needs to move away from race based detention centers. History never looks kindly on it.”
Just a little poke, HQ. I don’t mean it. I have two questions:
1. Why is this happening now, 6 years after the law was signed, rather than last year or 5 years ago?
2. What is the problem as you see it? I mean specifically. Because it sort of sounds like you are defending what’s going on.
Michael,
Two-part answer to your first question:
1. Life has never been worse or more dangerous than it is currently in Central American countries not named Costa Rica.
2. The one you want me to say: Obama has granted others who are undocumented the opportunity to stay here legally. I do think these immigrants have been told (by people who are making money transporting them) that they too will be allowed to stay here legally. However, that advice isn’t based on anything Obama has actually said or done since he became President. In fact, Obama has deported more people that any other President . He also made it perfectly clear that the little “amnesty” he has offered is only available to those currently in the country, not for any new arrivals. He continues to make it clear that most of these refugees will eventually be sent home.
As for your second question: Am I defending what’s going on? Like you, I just want the law enforced and the law says that these people get to be processed and assessed before simply being sent home.
And yes, I do think those that have family in the United States should be allowed to stay. Parts of this world are really messed up. I would prefer we spend our national treasure helping people who actually want our help to have a better chance at a good life than spending it in parts of the world where they have hated us for the better part of a century and have been fighting among themselves for more than a millennium.
Thor’s Assistant-\
in response to your query – That stmt (top of pg 4) is not the solution but a unavoidable fact known to others, including The Democrat National Committee.
here is the link to one article regarding that stmt, published by JB Williams – on Sept 10,. 2009
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2009/williams091209.htm
The writers of the solution (link in my prior comment) are also 2 of the founders of our organization – The U.S. Patriots Union.
J.B. Williams (famous American political writer) http://newswithviews.com/JBWilliams/williamsA.htm
and
Barbara Ketay, former president of the U.S. Bar Association. They do not deal in conjecture – they deal in facts. .
– back to our immigration crisis. I just read a comment – cannot find the source, not sure if it is at all credible -that children are being taken from those countries and dumped at the border.
Thanks for knowing the difference between opinion and fact.
Mr. Sandvick; If you find the source you mentioned, I know I would be interested in knowing it. From what I do know, the parents of these children are trying to get them out of harms way, and they thought the US would be a better place, as it has been for so many of us. I stand by the children. Let’s not make terrorists out of them, but instead show them the way of peace and light. Then we will have made many friends, and they will help keep us strong. At least that is my hope. I have no facts to back it up.
Thanks for the answers, HQ.
I don’t really know a true solution when it comes to immigration. I do think we need to have complete control of our borders and there is no one answer to accomplish that. We do not have control currently. Anyone who says otherwise, contact me directly and we’ll go off-roading together in Imperial County.
I do believe the immigration solution needs to be the result of intelligently identifying specific problems. “Not enough people get to come in” is not an intelligently identified problem.
To – Lorri Greene
1st – I will look for the source.
2nd – we Americans are humanitarians, proven time and time again.
Our hearts along with our pocketbooks are opened for all those downtrodden in the world..
Just know that the federal agenda is chain migration. for each illegal immigrant that will be legalized in America, I heard (on a radio interview) that they would be able to bring their family over (wives, children, grandchildren, grandparents, cousins, etc.)
They estimated the immediate impact to our country would be about 100 million new immigrants.
Sen. Lindsay Graham’s assistant told me that they will not be phasing out the gov’t pamphlets printed in the 12-16 different languages. (That should tell you something about planned assimilation of the masses)
is this what you think would happen?
A word of advice to commenters:
You would be well served on Rostra to not use phrases that include things like…
“I just read a comment – cannot find the source, not sure if it is at all credible…”
“I heard (on a radio interview) that…”
We shouldn’t have to explain why.
Great dialogue. Lorri, Lee is not a male, but mistake is understandable.
TA-we need to commission an artist for a new image for you :-), you’re ageless….
Is anyone signing the petition?
Thanks Ms. Right, I’m not completely ageless. I was young once. Here is my Throw Back Thor Day photo…
http://sdrostra.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Throw-Back-Thor-Day.jpg
Got it. thanks for the insight.
no more – I heard, I read, unless I quote the source.
Thanks for making my Friday TA!!!
After further reading and thanks to this discussion, I now realize how much more the 2008 law has caused the problem, than I previously thought.
Part 2:
Still, it is hard to ignore this:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/06/16/us/us-to-stop-deporting-some-illegal-immigrants.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Michael,
Are you saying that Obama is at fault for issuing the “Dream Act Executive Order,” a order which happened more than two years ago and specifically would not apply to the children currently showing up on the border?
The reason The Dream Act couldn’t pass was because Republicans were worried about what is happening now. So Obama passed it and it happened.
It appears that there has been a huge increase since 2012. There’s a very real possibility that this increase is based on perception thanks to the 2008 law and the 2012 executive order. No?
Michael,
Where do you think these parents got the idea that their kids would able to stay in the United States if they just found a way to get here? Do you think they were watching CNN or MSNBC on their 80 inch flat screen televisions when Obama signed the Dream Act? Did they then jump on the high speed internet and research the 2008 law?
Nothing in the Dream Act allows these children to say and, in fact, Obama has forcefully been saying that he wants the tools to deport these children as soon as possible. These parents are simply being used by international criminals who on one hand created an unlivable situation and then on the other hand, exploited that situation lying about what the law in the United States is and how their children would be received.
The Dream Act is good law and you, of all people, shouldn’t be asking to change good law because criminals are distorting its true meaning.
A law that draws children across dangerous terrain risking their life so they can sit in a federal detention center until they get deported is “good” in your opinion?
It seems the intention behind Obama’s Dream Act executive order (not law) was good, but we really must agree these results are not good. Don’t we?
Michael,
I think we are having a failure to communicate.
The Dream Act is very good law even if it took an Executive Order.
From Wikipedia, “This bill would provide conditional permanent residency to certain immigrants of good moral character who graduate from U.S. high schools, arrived in the United States as minors, and lived in the country continuously for at least five years PRIOR TO THE BILL’S ENACTMENT.” (capitalization is mine)
There is nothing in the Dream Act that allows these potential new immigrants to gain permanent residency. The fact that a criminal element is misleading the families of these children is no reason to scrap a law that will allow tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of productive members of our society from living here legally, contributing to our country and eventually becoming citizens.
As a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, you should be very afraid of the idea of scrapping a law just because it is sometimes abused or misrepresented with tragic and horrific consequences.
The spike in illegal alien minors after Obama implemented his Dream Act executive order (and to a lesser extent after the 2008 law) seems to indicate that the message he sent to South Americans is that the border is open to their children. Whether increasing illegal aliens was his intention or not, it looks like the 2008 law is complicating matters even more, but the current disaster is the result.
Can you recommend a way to change the law to help clean up the mess caused by the 2008 law and the 2012 Obama executive order? I am all ears.
Regarding gun laws, I am very much in favor of getting rid of many of the gun laws on the books that were likely well intentioned, but have shown horrible results. I’ve been very vocal on that. Getting rid of a disastrous law (and executive order) is exactly what it looks like needs to happen with immigration law here.
“The spike in illegal alien minors after Obama implemented his Dream Act executive order…”
Similarly, there was a spike in mass shootings after the Federal “Assault Weapons Ban” was allowed to expire. I doubt you want the ban to be put back in place.
At the risk of repeating myself, the Dream Act has helped and will help countless thousands who are worthy of our help and does not allow for permanent residency for anyone who entered this country illegally after June, 2007. Therefore, I do not want to see it repealed and it certainly was not the act nor Obama who sent a message to Central (not South) Americans”that the border is open to their children.” This message was sent by the drug cartels. That being said, I do realize that the cartels have no reason to stop lying so it is our responsibility to overcome the current challenge.
Since you asked:
1. Stop blaming Obama. Not only is it factually inaccurate, it is also politically counterproductive. We will need Senate Democrats and the President himself to help solve this problem.
2. Without violating the 2008 law, process these children and adults as fast as is legally possible and send as many as is legally possible back to their home countries. It would be helpful if we could hire many more immigration judges to speed up the process.
3. Repeal the part of the 2008 law that treats immigrants from other countries differently than immigrants from Mexico and Canada.
4. After making that change in the 2008 law, send the rest of the current wave of immigrants back to their own country.
5. Dramatically increase our diplomatic presence in Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala. Encourage those who are qualified to apply for asylum at our embassies within those countries and spread the word that others who just show up at our border will be deported.
6. End our ridiculous war on drugs and remove the power of the cartels.
Unfortunately for illegal alien minors, there is no specified right to cross our borders protected in the Constitution like there is a right to keep and bears arms like those described in the assault weapon ban. But…that was an expired law. Not the implementation of a law. We’re talking about two different things.
And I am not blaming Obama, I am blaming his executive order. There is a pretty clear cause and effect. The first step in solving a problem would be to identify the cause.
I tried to give a thoughtful response to your question about how to “clean up the mess” and your response is “I am not blaming Obama, I am blaming his executive order.”
To paraphrase a line from a current phone company commercial, “I don’t even know what to do with that.”
Did you even read my suggestions #2-6?
HQ, add “gain complete and total control of our borders” and I am 100% with you on those.
Thought I cannot sign on to your assertion that the Second Amendment kills people (probably not the forum or time to discuss this one)…the rest of this sounds spot-on to me.
Michael,
I am not sure how you gain “complete and total control: of anything, let alone a 2,000 mile long southern border (I don’t know how long the northern one is). The only country I know that came close was East Germany and short of putting us under an impenetrable dome, I am not sure how we would accomplish this.
I am in favor of:
1. Increasing the size of our Border Patrol.
2. Taking advantage of all new technologies to patrol the border.
3. Finishing the southern border fence. I would even be willing to build a northern one – both would be great economic stimulus and would provide thousands of well-paying jobs.
As for the Second Amendment, it unquestionably has resulted in the loss of life. It has also unquestionably saved lives.
I agree with your 3 point here too.
Now tell me you want to pay for it by getting all our troops home and closing down foreign bases and this might be the beginning of a beautiful relationship.
Slow down there.
It’s a big dangerous world out there and having military bases in friendly countries throughout the world is prudent.
What is not prudent is:
1. Getting involved in or even creating civil wars in parts of the world we really don’t understand, especially where all sides hate us.
2. Overthrowing dictators in countries that have never had democracy and then expecting democracy to be successful.
3. Expecting that the enemy of our enemy is our friend and that he will remain so after we provide him with sophisticated weapons.
If we did the above three, we could keep our bases and still be able to pay for border security and help people who simply want a chance at life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We would be much stronger as a nation.
Man…we were so close!
“It’s a big dangerous world out there and having military bases in friendly countries throughout the world is prudent.”
Not always so. We have bases in countries with friendly regimes. Sometimes, the people living under those regimes hate us, as in you and me, for having our bases in their backyard.
If a President Ted Cruz turned North island over to Russia, I might start disliking the Russian people (and be pissed at Ted Cruz). I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that my daughter and her friends would despise Russian sailors in 20 years. My grandkids would just hate all Russians.
It’s a theory called blowback and the CIA talked about it a lot some 20 years ago.
Aircraft carriers however, are pretty potent projectors of power.
http://youngcons.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/BsmLwovIEAAa0io.jpg
Brian,
I think we need more than “potent projectors of power.” We need the capability for rapid response in times of crisis.
Bases in Germany, Japan, South Korea, etc. are still necessary for us to protect our self interests and those of our NATO allies and friends in Asia.
“Bases in Germany, Japan, South Korea, etc. are still necessary for us to protect our self interests ”
Like Ty Woods, Glen Doherty, Sean Smith, and Chris Stevens? Oh right, they weren’t our “self -interests”.
Benghazi is a prime example of how useless those foreign bases really are. They don’t protect American interests; they are subsidies for World War II-era allies.
At the end of the day, a carrier group can deploy a Special Operations team much faster than army in a foreign base….and cheaper, too. Of course, that means the Germans, French, and Japanese will actually have to fund, train, and operate a defense force
Brian,
Four people died so our bases are useless.
Japan and Germany are World War II-era allies.
We would be better off if all our allies fund, train and operate a defense force.
Did I capture your main points?
Maybe you should look to Central America for something that works. The only country not sending children to live here is Costa Rica. In fact, more Americans move there than vice versa. Why? Because this long-time stable democracy has no military; they simply rely on a defense treaty with the U.S.A. And we get the benefit of not only a great vacation location where the people love Americans, we get the comfort in knowing that we didn’t have to send weapons where they might someday be used against us.
As for your point about Carrier Groups being more effective than bases, I am still trying to figure out how they would provide the on-the-ground intelligence necessary to be effective in a foreign country.
“As for your point about Carrier Groups being more effective than bases, I am still trying to figure out how they would provide the on-the-ground intelligence necessary to be effective in a foreign country”
They wouldn’t but that’s not their mission. Either is it the mission of the 28,000 troops in South Korea or the 67,000 troops in Europe. The military’s mission is to kill people and break things and, if we’re lucky, in only happens for a brief period of time every generation.
Perpetual war, in the name if “spreading democracy around the world” produced the most violent century in the history of humankind.
I have an idea! Let’s have those troops guard the border of El Paso rather than Gaziantep
“Either is it the mission of the 28,000 troops in South Korea or the 67,000 troops in Europe. The military’s mission is to kill people and break things and, if we’re lucky, in only happens for a brief period of time every generation.”
It has been at least a couple of generations since U.S. troops based in Germany, Japan or South Korea have “killed people or broke things.” Their mission is quite the opposite – deter violence. You favorite President said it best – “Peace through strength”
One more point on Benghazi. The deaths didn’t occur on a military base. Are you suggesting that we also close all of our consulates?
I think you’re helping to make my point. “Deterring violence” is the repurposed mission assigned to troops who were originally prepared to fight a ground war against The Soviets. The Cold War is over.
My second favorite President also wanted a 600-ship Navy because he knew THAT would be the way to thwart post Cold War threats. At the end of the day, I’m saying that glistening hulls on the horizon is much more effective deterrent than boots on the ground.
That’s how you protect a consulate.
“At the end of the day, I’m saying that glistening hulls on the horizon is much more effective deterrent than boots on the ground.”
Agree to disagree.
“The Cold War is over.”
Are you following the news out of Ukraine?
“That’s how you protect a consulate.”
How exactly would a destroyer protect a consulate?
Immigration AND foreign policy? where to jump in. I offer this:
#1 Immigration: a lot of the comments on this “child immigrant crisis” seems to be a response to the event. BUt let’s take a step back, look at the big picture and define what is our immigration policy supposed to accomplish? Is it to be a global charity to those in need? provide a labor supply to our economy? restrict possible new entrants? prevent additional burdens on our “social safety net”? Let’s define what our immigration policy iis supposed to do then we can workout the details of what to do with these kids.
#2 foreign policy. I posted this to fb article (link here: http://reason.com/archives/2014/07/25/best-thing-to-do-in-foreign-policy-is-no)
One must ask if our foreign policy makes us freer or safer. Since WW2, its questionable if any of our foreign policy adventures meet that criteria. Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War, and Iraq if we intervened or not America’s existence wasn’t in doubt. In only one did we meet our original objectives (GW) yet the results didn’t contribute to us being greater in terms of freedom or safety. Finally, when engaging these wars our government often imposed more freedom restrictions on us and took on a burden of debt that doesn’t make our lives better. We need to really define what our foreign policy is supposed to do for us. Maintaining post-ww2 stability shouldn’t be our policy when political and economic power has shifted dramatically since 1945 (yet our fp hasn’t).
Elliot,
You are absolutely correct on #1. Unless you know where you are going, it really doesn’t make any sense to start running faster.
As for #2, there is much more to foreign policy than simply fighting wars. I firmly believe that it is in our best interest to be engaged in the world, but with very few exceptions, we haven’t fought a war that made any sense since WWII.
Oh yeah, FP is more than wars. And its safe to say a war is an example of foreign policy failing not succeeding.
I agree Elliot about your foreign policy comment.
HQ, who said anything about disengagement? I want to trade with EVERYONE! Soldiers don’t trade
Brian,
In an ideal world, I am with you. However, I don’t think that ISIS, Al Queda or any of the number of bad actors out there are interested in trading with us. I also don’t think that trade alone is enough to make Russia, North Korea or any of the number of other dangerous countries out there give up their evil ways.