The recall notice of Poway Unified School District Trustee Andy Patapow was invalidated today for the second time since Friday, again because some signers were not registered at the addresses listed.
The recall proponents, should they continue their efforts, would once again have to restart the process and serve notice to Patapow — for a third time.
If the difficulty in collecting ten or so valid signatures is any indication, how does this bode for collecting thousands?
It’s a fair question.
__
Admin note: When Rostra broke the news on Friday that the first recall notice was invalidated, supporters of the effort made comments (see below) that our reporting was incorrect, noting that it was only a simple correction of addresses that needed to be taken care of, and that the recall was proceeding. For the record, it was never reported here that the recall proponents could not start the process again, it was reported that the initial paperwork was invalidated by the Registrar of Voters — which it was.
The FACT now, as it was previously for the first, is that the second Notice of Recall was invalidated today by the Registrar of Voters.
_____
Below story updated — Tuesday, October 13, 10:37 am…
Poway schools recall of Patapow back in play
As anticipated, the effort to recall Trustee Andy Patapow from the Poway Unified School Board has been restarted, despite a hiccup along the way. The San Diego Union-Tribune has a detailed story.
As reported here on Friday (see below), the Registrar of Voters invalidated the initial “Notice of Intention” due to voter registration discrepancies, which have now been cleared up.
The proponents say they re-served Patapow with a new notice on Saturday morning.
_____
Below story updated — Friday, October 9, 4:55 pm…
BREAKING: Poway schools recall petition tossed — some proponents aren’t registered voters
Rostra has received confirmation from the San Diego County Registrar of Voters that the “fledgling” recall petition against Poway Unified School Board Member Andy Patapow (as reported below on Wednesday) isn’t even fledgling — it’s DOA.
Invalidated.
Apparently, some of the petitioners that signed the “Notice of Intention” to circulate recall papers aren’t voters at the address listed in the document.
A further search of voting records suggests Chris and Kimberley Garnier — two of the main proponents of the recall — may not be registered at all or are inactive in the official voter file. (Previously registered voters may be placed in an inactive file if the Registrar tries to mail them something, with no response — this typically happens after a history of not voting.)
There is no question, however, for now this recall effort is officially invalidated.
Those legal requirements to be registered to vote if you’re going to be involved in the election process — what a complete pain!
_____
Original post — Wednesday, October 7, 2:23 pm…
BREAKING: Poway Schools Trustee Andy Patapow facing recall effort
Recall papers were served yesterday against Poway Unified School Board member Andy Patapow.
Republican Patapow says he was given an early warning — or what some may call a threat — on Saturday by a fellow board member, Democrat Charles Sellers, as detailed below.
This appears to be a power play by Sellers and possibly fellow Trustee Kimberly Beatty to replace Patapow with another Democrat.
Of further interest, the District in February obtained a three-year workplace violence restraining order against one of the recall proponents, Chris Garnier, because of alleged threats to school employees. Garnier’s in-laws, Keith and Linda Wilson, are also listed in the recall petition. Keith Wilson was recently escorted by security from a public board meeting for disruption of the meeting. Those in attendance note Wilson used profanity during the incident.
The text below is from an email Patapow sent to all board members, principals, and others:
On Saturday, October 5th, I received a phone call from Board member Charles Sellers, asking me to meet with him.
At that meeting, Mr. Sellers informed me that a petition to recall me from the Board of Education had been completed by a member of the public – and that he – Charles – was delivering the message that I could step down voluntarily if I wanted to avoid the embarrassment of a public recall petition.
Mr. Sellers shared a print copy of the petition with me, but did not allow me to see the names of the petition signers.
Mr. Sellers gave me a “decision deadline” of Monday.
Mr. Sellers called me at 11:30 a.m. on Monday, asking if I had made a decision. He then texted me, saying that the deadline for my decision was extended to noon on Tuesday.
At 1:50 p.m. today (Tuesday), the author of the petition, Mr. Keith Wilson, served me a “Notice of Intention to Circulate Recall Petition” at my home.
10 individuals signed this petition. They are:
- Keith and Linda Wilson
- Chris, Kimberley, Dr. Ramona and Winslow Garnier
- Brooks, Monica and Virgil Iler
- Anjum Razvi
Mr. Keith Wilson listed the following reasons for recalling me:
- I voted for the Capital Appreciation Bonds (CABs)
- I have accepted gifts from the bond underwriters
- I have refused to fire any financial consultants or district employees responsible for the CABs
I am sharing this information with you tonight because the “Notice of Intention to Circulate Recall Petition” must be filed with our local newspaper and I wanted you to be informed before your read about it in the newspaper.
As allowed by law, I will be submitting a response to this recall petition to the County of San Diego Registrar of Voters within the next seven (7) days.
I have honorably served our District for the past 50 years. 20 of those years have been as a Member of the Board of Education.
I am proud of my contributions and proud of my record. Most of all, I am proud to work with and for PUSD’s outstanding students, teachers, classified personnel and community members.
Andy Patapow
Board of Education
Comments 190
My language at the school board meeting is nothing worse than what the middle school kids hear on the bus. I was clearly upset with Collins responding to my public comments which is a violation of the Brown Act.
By the time the recall is over, you will learn just how corrupt the PUSD is. I have just begun to shine a light on the District Office and the cockroaches are running in all directions.
Thanks, Mr. Wilson. Please share any additional details you’d like.
Sorry Greg, this is not a Republican vs. Democrat issue. This is simply an issue of Andy Patapow being the only Board Member remaining who voted for the CAB bond. All others have been replaced. That said, Patapow has served as a Board member for 20 years overseeing what is arguably the best public school district in San Diego and one of the best in California. The good he has done certainly outweighs the mistake of one vote, in my opinion.
It’s time to fire John Collins as Superintendent of Poway Unified School District and to empty the trash, Trustee Andy Patapow, of all those that are involved with the approval of the CAB. Trustee Patapow’s and Collins’ decision to put our grandchildren in debt because of the CAB must be dealt with immediately.
I am not surprised at reading of this petition as I have heard many in the community discussing it ever since last November. The election last November was a resounding message from the community as a vote of NO CONFIDENCE in the board members in support of the bad acts and ongoing questionable (if not criminal) acts carried out by the Superintendent collins. Andy Patapow would have been similarly defeated had he been on the ballot.
Those who believe this is a “Democrat” vs “Republican” matter do so at their own peril. Many community members who favor the removal of Superintendent Collins and Board member Patapow are active Republicans themselves. When board members vote against the taxpayers who elect them, their party affiliation means nothing. Similarly, when board members vote as a true trustee of the public and in the best interest of taxpayers, parents and students instead of representing big money donors, union bosses and “the good ol’ boys”, their party affiliation matters not. Kimberley Beatty has been such a representative of the taxpayer, parents and students. She may be a registered Democrat but has been much more responsible to taxpayers and parents than Republican counterparts both past and present. Kudos to all 4 board members from both political parties who recently voted against the rubber stamping of Collins’ “buddy-buddy contracts”. Shame on Patapow for being the lone supporter of “business as usual – the Collins way”.
The Garniers and Wilsons are ridiculous and (Edited out by Admin)…I like that Keith compares himself to a middle school child. Sound about right. They are desperate as they know they are on a limited time frame. It’s been a year…tick, tick, tick…
This is just dirty politics plain and simple. It obvious for a long time that Garniers, Beatty and Sellers have been working behind the scenes together. I guess they are worried that their buddy Reilly won’t get elected next year so they are trying to find a way to slip him in. These are … people who are just trying to destroy an entire school district for their own petty political gain.
You want to talk about buddy-buddy contract. PSEA or the Mrs. Sellers union just announced an amazing deal. Huge raises, huge health care benefits. It is all too obvious what his really going on.
How disappointing to think that anyone would draw partisan lines when it comes to our kids’ schools and our nation’s educational foundation. There have been so many failures with Superintendent John Collin’s leadership and it seems this recall is just another reaction to the multiple underlying problems. That’s not to say that there hasn’t been good work Collins and Patapow have produced and that’s not to say that they don’t care about kids and their education. But as a parent and recent participant on my school foundation board and PUSD tech advisory committee I am absolutely astounded at the level of unprofessionalism and outright petty disregard for sound process and high-level, long-term decision-making. If Collins truly cared about this district and children he would step down, assist in a transition process and take his skill and passion to another district where he can lead with improved ability having learned from the many mistakes he made at PUSD. This has been a downward spiral for as long as I have attended my district’s board meetings and it needs to immediately end so that the focus is again placed on catching up where PUSD has fallen behind, closing gaps and stopping the loss of talent from the district, supporting teachers/staff, and helping our kids to be successful and competitive for future success. Anyone who turns these issues into petty fights against one family (the Garniers and Wilsons) or tries to politicize this into GOP vs Dems is failing our kids in the same way Collins and Patapow’s support of Collins has.
The Garniers are a (edited out by Rostra admin) family who will do anything they can to bring down PUSD. Not only are they suing the school district for millions of dollars they are also having private conversations with board members attempting to fire John Collins. Anybody who supports the Garniers and Wilsons are against PUSD. But beware if you do not support the Garniers you will be tarnished as a racist. Mr. Garnier … has caused stress throughout the District. It needs to end.
Wilson got it right. This is some of the quotes from Republicans and Democrats. What is really terrible, T J Zane and Michelle O’Connor Ratcliff has given the same financial advisors, bond attorneys, and underwriters another 180 million in new bond issuance this year. These two should be recalled as well.
San Diego county Treasurer-Tax Collector Dan McAllister has been stimulated by the PUSD fiasco to recommend legislative changes which would preclude this kind of irrational funding in the future.
Financial Times Gillian Tett wrote ” At best, this is a case of kicking the can down the road; at worst, a case of the government dancing with loan sharks”.
The New York Times wrote ” Should districts issue such bonds? It is not an easy question to answer. Much of this expensive borrowing is a result of local officials searching for a way to meet their responsibilities at a time when opposition to taxes has become a mantra. This generation will not pay for what it needs, so some of its leaders have decided to saddle future generations with the bills”.
Barry Ritholtz at the Washington Post uses Poway schools’ deal to introduce “The Inviolable Rules for Dealing with Wall Street.” He describes the situation like this: … allow me to point you to the latest group of suckers to get taken in by The Street’s three-card monte: the Poway Unified School District in San Diego. It took a page from the Greek school of bad finance, agreeing to an exotic and costly bit of Wall Street shenanigans. Despite the district’s strong tax base and good credit rating, its officials bought a complex Wall Street-originated exotic loan offering. … The worst part of all is that by the time the bill comes due, everyone associated with this awful deal will be long gone. It’s a classic case of “I’ll be gone, you’ll be gone” financing
U-T San Diego reported Poway school district officials were bought meals, which weren’t disclosed at first, at conferences hosted by the firm that underwrote the controversial bond.
John Collins, Superintendent of Poway Unified Schools District say that the district did five deals four of them was great deals only one was bad, the average is fine.
Will Carless, Voice of San Diego said “Borrowing $105 million will cost PUSD nearly $1 Billion. The full 2,200 word statement makes no mention of capital appreciation bonds, and says little about how the borrowing would be paid back. The ballot arguments against the bond don’t mention the unusually high costs involved in borrowing money that won’t begin to be paid back for 20 years.
This is way worse than loan sharking,” said Michael Turnipseed, executive director of the Kern County Taxpayers Association in central California, which has lobbied the state Legislature to tighten laws on school district borrowing. “And Poway is the poster child. What they have done is absolutely insane.”
President of San Diego Taxpayers Association Lani Lutar’s said had she known the full implications of the bond, she would not have recommended the association support it. “Poway should have been more forthright with us,” Lutar said. “Had we known then what we know now, we would probably have taken a different path.”
County Tax Collector McAllister said his office met with the district last year to raise concerns about the deal. He said his staff was worried both about the sheer cost of the bond and the idea of placing such a large burden on future taxpayers. And, because the deal depends on property taxes steadily increasing in order to pencil out, McAllister said his staff warned Poway Unified against making the deal.“We suggested it might be something they want to rethink,” McAllister said.
In the wake of Poway’s deal last year, Los Angeles County Treasurer and Tax Collector Mark Saladino wrote an open letter to school finance officials in California warning against the use of long-term capital appreciation bonds for the same reasons.
Glenn Byers, Los Angeles’ assistant treasurer and tax collector, said districts like Poway have been dishonest by issuing bonds without laying out the consequences and costs of the loans for taxpayers.“If they ever told the truth, they would never get these approved by the voters,” Byers said.
Karmala Harris, State of California Attorney General wrote directly that she consider the upfront loading of the CABs to be unconstitutional.
Wilkinson Hadley King & Co of El Cajon independent audit of Poway Unified School District will owe $2.5 billion over the next 40 years–far more that the nearly 1 billion connected to district much-maligned capital appreciation bonds. Spot checks of Poway Unified finances also found “instances of noncompliance” with certain record keeping requirements.
Governor Jerry Brown signed legislation that radically curbs CAB bond practices that Poway Unified School has become infamous for.
Los Angeles County of Los Angeles Treasurer and Tax Collector warning all LA schools that the use of Bond Premiums to Pay Costs of Issuance that any premium must be deposited into a special fund, applies to debt service and cannot be diverted to pay cost of issuance. PUSD use of Bond Premiums is illegal.
State Assemblyman Ben Hueso pledged to sponsor legislative to limit the use of CAB.
Bob Pacilio, teacher in Poway Unified School District complains that his class size had increase from 135 students to 240 in 2012.
State Senator Joel Anderson said that he will work with San Diego County Tax Assessor McAllister and other to prevent Poway Unified School District style of CABs.
Joel Thurtell, a Michigan blogger released a statement, the Poway district pointed out that the bond issue was the fifth part of a plan to modernize the 24 oldest schools in the district, adding that while that bond “has a total repayment ratio of 9.3 times the principal amount,” the overall borrowing program has a repayment ratio of just 4.2. That means that for every dollar borrowed, $3.20 in interest will be paid.
Flex Salmon, Finance blogger at Reuters says that the Poway deal get fishier. Poway sold these bonds at 120 cents on the dollar, there’s no way it could be buy them back at 105 cents or less. In any case, the more we learn about his Poway bond, the smellier it gets. And of course officials aren’t talking.
Murtaza Baxamusa Looks like raising taxes would have saved more for Poway taxpayers, than hiding behind a “no-tax” pledge. You cannot do correct math if some of the operational symbols are missing from your calculator.
Edward Teyssier If history is any guide, it is highly likely that in 20 years the existing buildings the school district built or fixed with this money will be so old that school district will need all new buildings and so there’ll need to be ANOTHER bond measure to pay for those.
Patapow has been sleep at the wheel for years, not to mention several times actually sleeping during the board meetings.
For the anonymous folks who want to attack my family, I am sorry for your ignorance and hate. Just because you disagree with our advocacy for PUSD, does not give you the right to attack my family. We are not public figures, we are just a family trying to right wrongs for the entire PUSD community. Ignorance is bliss and I’m sure the truth is upsetting to people. Instead of continuing to blast us, let’s debate the issues.
As far as the accusations regarding racism, how would one categorize the spray painting of the N word at PUSD schools or the nooses or the death threat against black students? That is blatant racism and it speaks volumes when certain people don’t want those issues brought to the light.
My husband and I love PUSD. We grew up here, K-12, and brought our children back to this community. Our love for this district and the people in the community are the reasons we are fighting so hard to make things right.
As the CEO of PUSD, John Collins has made a lot of money at the expense of tax payers, teachers, and students. The indisputable facts of his excessive salary, burdening the tax payers with a Billion Dollar Cab, allowing so many schools to go without PE and music, admittedly fraternizing with a subordinate, promoting others who followed in his unscrupulous footsteps, attempting to control a Board elected by the people, and for a whole laundry list of other reasons, this district needs to be cleaned up and rebuilt.
The Garnier family and the Wilson family love PUSD. My father, Mr. Keith Wilson, donated a minivan to RBHS to use for the Special Ed department. He purchased uniforms for the basketball team and he has given hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of volunteer time to the students at PUSD. Both families have been involved in this community for decades and have given in every way. I don’t believe the personal attacks will end. That is often times the result of being outspoken and bold enough to take a stand. Most of the time when we read these comments, it encourages us to forge ahead as we know we are striking a nerve.
I look forward to all that is brought to light in the coming months. It’s time for PUSD to be great again and until the trash is taken out, our house will continue to be a mess. PUSD Community, be bold, be brave, be informed and restore the reason we all moved to this town in the first place.
To all:
We deal in issues here, not personalities. Commenters may differ over policies, even harshly and strongly, but not in name calling.
It doesn’t matter what you may think of someone; that’s your opinion, but it does nothing to raise the level of debate to reference it.
If you can’t make a comment and even strongly take someone’s position apart without resorting to having to also call them names, you’re in the wrong place.
We know, it’s much easier to simply call names than to make a solid argument. We deal in arguments about issues.
We’ve done our best to edit some of the comments above to remove the unnecessary and petty, without changing the meaning or overall content. We’ll also leave open our right to simply remove comments from repeat offenders.
Dear Thor’s Assistant,
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. If there is anyone out there that can truthfully say that Patapow is not a rubber stamp for Collins, then please come forward. If there is anyone out there that can identify one original thought from Patapow that has been adopted, please come forward. As the IT consultant so aptly stated in his review of the PUSD, “perceptions in PUSD are not always reality.”
A couple of comments deleted or not approved. We don’t allow unsubstantiated allegations of illegal, unethical or immoral behavior. Commenters may know something to be true, or believe they know something to be true, but without proof, such allegations — implied or otherwise — are potentially libelous.
There are comments that remain about the Garnier/Wilson family that are simply not true, however I appreciate the decorum you are trying to instill. Thank you for editing where necessary.
Thor’s Assistant Said “A couple of comments deleted or not approved. We don’t allow unsubstantiated allegations of illegal, unethical or immoral behavior. Commenters may know something to be true, or believe they know something to be true, but without proof, such allegations — implied or otherwise — are potentially libelous.”
Greg Larson said “This appears to be a power play by Sellers and possibly fellow Trustee Kimberly Beatty to replace Patapow with another Democrat.”
Is Greg’s statement substantiated? Or just an opinion?
See update at top of post.
“This appears to be a power play by Sellers and possibly fellow Trustee Kimberly Beatty to replace Patapow with another Democrat.” — Greg Larkin
That would be an opinion.
Do you see anything in that opinion which even implies illegal, unethical or immoral behavior?
In fact, his take that this a partisan thing is also a rightful opinion, whether he’s wrong or right. He hasn’t accused anyone of illegal acts.
Opinions are fine, which we’ve noted, even very strong ones. Accusations of wrong-doing are different than opinions.
There is a difference — and its a standard in the news business between opinion and possible libel.
The person posting as PUSD4Life, please go back and read our prior comments about name calling. We’d like to post your comment, but please try again.
Some of you also seem to think this is a personal bulletin board for those in the know about the fights in Poway. No one else besides a few has a clue what you’re referencing when you make comments like “this is about race” and “let’s just let it play out in court.”
Is there a court case?
The recall supporters have suddenly become very quiet.
The local office of the Registrar of Voters files had not been updated. At the time of the original petition, both Chris and I were registered to vote.
Andy Patapow was served with a valid petition and the recall continues. Thank you to everyone for your support and interest in helping with the recall.
Ms. Garnier,
Thanks for your comment. Yesterday (Friday) at about 430 pm the Registrar informed Rostra that the petition was invalid and the petitioners would need to start over. Subsequently at 447 pm or so, the Registrar further indicated that you and your husband were not registered at the address listed on the petition.
We do understand these voter file intricacies, which is why we included in the story above a possible reason for the confusion.
We also understand that even if a new petition must be started, that you might intend to proceed with it.
So, for clarity, if you can assist with any of these questions…
-Was the information provided to us by the Registrar yesterday afternoon incorrect?
-Did the Registrar provide you info late yesterday that your initial petition was valid after all?
-Has the Registrar provided you any information about needing to start a new petition, as the first one was deemed invalid?
Thanks for any clarity you may be able to provide to our readers.
Who can blame Patapow for the CAB vote?
He was only following the recommendations of those outstanding fiscal watchdogs, the San Diego County Taxpayers Association.
W.C.,
Very commonly misinderstood. Even to the point that reporters misreport it and voters incorrectly believe they voted for Capital Appreciation Bonds (CABs) in 2008. The voters did not.
I’ve even seen some closest to this recall and infighting in the last few days say, “Well, we did vote for the CABs.” Nope.
The ballot resolution adopted by Poway Unified and related ballot measure approved by voters in 2008 made no reference to CABs.
The CABs came three years later, in a subsequent board-approved financial arrangement that did not appear on the ballot. (Yes, Patapow did vote for it.)
If you or anyone else would like a factual understanding of the difference between a ballot resolution and a subsequent bond sale resolution, I’m happy to provide a basic understanding. Just let me know.
Most importantly, however, is the more recent positive result of the disturbing CAB arrangement with extreme, long-term debt used by Poway and others: Now, under state law, school districts must commit in advance of voter approval to CAB limitations. This was not the case in the past.
But, again, had Poway voters read the details of the ballot measure in 2008, they still wouldn’t have been the wiser about what was to come in the form of a 10 to one debt ratio. There was no reference to CABs on the ballot.
Anyone who says or reports differently is simply wrong, without knowing it.
I’m available to provide further details.
Barry,
You are absolutely correct. However the San Diego County Taxpayers Association did “endorse” PUSD’s purchase of a $100 million bridge loan which led directly to the need for the CAB bond. This endorsement came in the form of the Grand Watchdog Award given PUSD for taking out this loan.
A little context – at the time of the loan, the economy was booming and construction inflation was pushing double digits. Under increasing cost pressures, public desire to have “their school” fixed first and bond requirements that limit the amount of money available in a given year, PUSD took advantage of very low interest rates and took out the aforementioned loan. SDCTA awarded PUSD, stating that they saved the taxpayer tens of millions of dollars in increased construction costs while bringing needed repairs years ahead of schedule.
The problem – the housing market (and property taxes) tanked and there was no money to pay the loan when it came due. A regular current interest bond wasn’t an option because the tax revenue was not enough to make payments while still paying off previously purchased bonds. A CAB bond (it could have been shorter duration) or a tax increase were really the only choices.
Barry, you are correct that SDCTA never endorsed the CAB bond. They did however give Poway an award for the action that led to the CAB’s necessity.
Thanks, HQ, for that additional detail. I’m not one to believe the Taxpayers Association has never been wrong. Since I’ve been involved, there are definitely outcomes with which I’ve disagreed.
My real point was had the 2008 Poway Unified ballot measure addressed the financing that would eventually be used on one of the voter authorized bond sales, something maybe even the school district didn’t know at the time, there’s no chance the voters, or the Taxpayers, or the Union-Trib, or others, would have supported it. The voters would have soundly rejected it.
Yes, the world changed with the crash of the housing market, and many school districts started to use CABs with huge debt ratios as a means to get around tax rate/assessed valuation caps. Poway was the most noticible example, clearly. The state legislation resulting from it, placing limits on the use of CABs, I believe is a good thing. I’m also pleased Taxpayers took up the mission, changing it’s policies to require public agencies to express in advance of a ballot measure their intent on the use of CABs. Voters should know that prior to voting, I think most would agree.
Go back and do your research Mr. Larkin. The recall is alive and well. Kim and I moved since the last election. We simply needed to update our voting address which has been completed. Patapow was served again yesterday morning at 10 am with all confirmed names by the county registrar. Let me know if you need more facts. I’ll be more than willing to provide them for you. I hope you are have a great weekend sir.
CABs are not inherently a bad idea. In fact, they are almost essential to managing cashflow over the 20-30 year life of a bond program. Even with the new state law, CABs are still used in every (or at least most) bond programs.
There are three factors to consider when judging a CAB:
1. The duration (shorter is better).
2. Interest rate (should be equal or very close to a Current Interest Bond).
3. Is it callable? (It should be and the new law requires it to be).
PUSD panicked and feared that the housing market might never return to normal. Had they realized that downturns don’t last for ever and instead bought a ten-year CAB, at a payout of less than 2-1, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
As for the San Diego County Taxpayers’ role, I don’t criticize them for the award that they gave to PUSD. The bridge loan was a very good idea that only went south because of the worst recession any of us have ever lived through. I also don’t give them much credit for the law regulating CABs since they were very late to that discussion. If you want to give credit, it should probably go to Dan McCallister and the Voice of San Diego although the latter got so much wrong in their reporting that I have trouble giving them credit.
Mr. Garnier:
Thanks. In other words, the reporting was exactly correct as of Friday. Did you see the questions posed in response to your wife above? They were for a reason, as acknowledgment that things may have changed since late Friday and to give her a chance to clarify.
The petition was invalidated on Friday, requiring the process to be restarted, as we indeed acknowledged could happen (same set of questions above). You updated your voting address. A new petition was served on Patapow — we accept your word on that.
Those appear to be the facts. Please confirm and we’ll update the story tomorrow (Monday).
A great weekend to you as well. Thanks.
For the record, the Registrar receive notice that the Garniers updated their registrations and that Patapow had been served again, but as of Sunday night (now) that information has yet to be confirmed. It will be verified on Monday.
Mr. Patapow was personally served at 1015 hrs on Saturday. The Registrar of Voters was emailed a copy of the petition as well as the proof of service. The originals of both were mailed to the Registrar of Voters on Saturday.
The recall of Mr. Patapow is alive and well.
One question for the Garnier and Wilsons: what would you have done to pay off the $100 million loan that came due at a time when existing tax revenues wouldn’t support a new Current Interest Bond?
Do not incur the debt until you have financing in place that has been approved by the voters. The CABs is not the way to go, in fact the California legislators have enacted laws to prevent this type of long term financing by school districts. The former state treasurer said what Poway did was stupid and the superintendent should be fired.
Yes, Mr. Wilson, based on the detailed discussion between Hypocricy Questioned and Barry Jantz above, it appears HQ is quite clear the legislature signed into law limitations on CABs. The Poway Unified CABs were of course completed before the new law.
HQ is asking what specifically could have been done instead of CABs, if anything.
Anyone want to jump in on that one?
When Mr. Wilson is saying avoid the debt, then it’s clear he clearly doesn’t understand the question posed. The issue was the debt already existed and this was the only solution. Then to cite that CABs are considered “illegal” shows his lack of knowledge as stated above, PUSD’s CAB occurred prior to the new legislation.
This new recall petition is a personnel vendetta that will create a deeper fray on a divided board and District.
If you want to talk about waste of taxpayer dollars, why don’t we ask the Garniers and Wilsons about what they have cost the district/taxpayers on defending frivolous lawsuits.
I have certain questions for the Garniers and Wilsons:
(1) How does Dr. Collins go from being the hero of Christopher Garnier, to being his enemy and to want him fired?
(2) Why does Mr. Garnier believe that race has anything to do with what the issues are at PUSD?
(3) What about the students? Where are your concerns for the students of PUSD who listen to you intimidating and cussing out the board and its superintendent?
Keith,
1. The debt was incurred with the financing in place as approved by the voters. The Bridge Loan was universally lauded as having saved the taxpayers tens of millions of dollars while accelerating the school modernization program.
2. Only because of a “once-in-a-lifetime” recession, did the District not have the ability to repay the loan when it came due. Nevertheless, it was a legal debt and the District still had an obligation to pay it.
3. CABs are still legal (with restrictions), are necessary and prudent, and are still used by most school districts throughout the state.
My question still stands. What would you have done to pay off the legally incurred debt? Or would you simply have not taken out the bridge loan and simply deprived (under normal economic conditions) the taxpayers tens of millions of dollars and delayed the modernization of many of PUSD’s schools?
In support of Barry Jantz’s comments, the public and outside advisors never were told on the costs of these bonds. It may be opinion, this was intentional acts by the PUSD board, Collins and the financial advisors. Here are two quotes that indicated the deceit from the School Board, Superintendent and the bond advisors to the these advisors.
President of San Diego Taxpayers Association Lani Lutar said had she known the full implications of the bond, she would not have recommended the association support it. “Poway should have been more forthright with us,” Lutar said. “Had we known then what we know now, we would probably have taken a different path.”
County Tax Collector Dan McAllister said his office met with the district to raise concerns about the deal. He said his staff was worried both about the sheer cost of the bond and the idea of placing such a large burden on future taxpayers. And, because the deal depends on property taxes steadily increasing in order to pencil out, McAllister said his staff warned Poway Unified against making the deal. “We suggested it might be something they want to rethink,” McAllister said.
Hypocrisy is also correct the PUSD Board, Collins and financial and Bond advisors all panicked. They realize the General Funds would have to pay the interest on the construction loan until the CABs were sold.
The board and the financial advisors did not consider asking the construction lender to extend the construction loan for a year, so the permanent financial market could improve. Then the PUSD Board Trustees, Collins and the advisors buried the financial reports. The success of the burial would be successful, except for an out of state blogger started looking at the loan on EMMA disclosures. Then all hell broke out for the district.
Patapow has been a yes man his entirety at PUSD. He as well as the entire CAB board members have enabled Collins to become the dictator. When parents speak up Collins allows Mel Robertson to character assassinate the parents. Just look at Midland Middle School, and current the parents in the Marching Band. Collins’ and Robertson’s approach in Midland destroyed the PTA and all the fund raising ability for the school. Teachers, parents and students left the school in mass.
Hypocricy’s point is a VERY important one and brings up both where the recall supporters have it right (and also where they have it really really wrong).
What the district was faced with was a challenging situation – due to construction cost increases do you essentially fall short in the promised upgrades to schools (I believe that RB High, RB Middle school and Garden Road would have been the ones “left out”) at the same time, because of mello-roos and Development impact fees, the district is building new schools on the West side of the district or undertake what proved to be a poorly thought out (though we really will not know until sometime 20-30 years from now) CAB? Critics of the CAB never really finish the sentence of whether they would have supported halting the program….and that includes Will C. from Voice of San Diego.
Now then, should we fault Collins for not more starkly laying out those choices and letting the community decide? Absolutely! And it is my biggest complaint with the district – it is too insular, not attuned to asking the public for input on the front end and to wedded to internally generated ideas that it doesn’t course correct. These range from little things to big policies such as the CAB.
But that is also where the critics are really missing the forest for the tree (Fire Collins is essentially their only agenda). By placing all blame on him (and board members that will not support that call) they commit at least 3 mistakes.
First, this scorched earth policy is unlikely to create a more open, transparent, and collaborative district. Indeed, it is likely to do the opposite as the bureaucrats hunker down and take defensive steps. Anyone who reads Rostra knows that the sad story of California is that the state has armed Education bureaucrats with an arsenal of laws and political powers that will make such a ground fight nearly impossible to win and, even if those favoring transparency prevail, will take years. One simple example, the leader of the reform movement on the board did not understand or even know about the legal requirement to meet and confer under Meter-Milias-Brown and started to quote the federalists to me when I tried to explain.
Second, it isn’t at all clear that Collins’ contract (which is up in about 18 months) would not protect him and require a pay out. The CABs may be dumb but they are not one of the causes laid out in the section of the CA Ed Code it references. So it is important to understand that, in the best case, we are looking at a year less of Collins at the cost of probably 1 to 2 million and the discord of a recall election.
Third, it is being done with way too much personal issues and focus. I do not care about conflicts between a parent and the district. I don’t care about balls being kicked into someone’s yard. What I do care about is systemic issues that reflect management problems. But that is much more difficult than painting the super as a bogeyman and the board members as dupes or worse.
Now is this a Republican vs. Democrat issue? Not entirely, but if there is a partisan issue it is the frustrating of the union representing support staff to not see its “success” in the past election translate into success in bargaining with the district.
Finally, what would I do? First, not recall. Dumb for an official who will be out of office in a bit more than a year. Second, not fire the super. I doubt Collins wants to stay so wait out the contract. Third, start thinking about SYSTEMIC changes in board policies, proceedures and actions to empower the community. At a bare minimum, start presenting board materials in non “ed-speak” and get some summaries of the issues out to the public to increase transparency and engagement. Working committees of the board would also be helpful so you are not as constrained by Brown act and can actually engage in DIALOGUE with the community in a more constructive fashion.
Rostra was also sent this late last week…
The Poway Federation of Teachers recognize PUSD School Board Member Andy Patapow for decades of service
October 8, 2015 – Poway, CA
The Poway Federation of Teachers, representing over 1,600 teachers of Poway Unified School District, would like to officially recognize Andy Patapow for his decades of partnering to educate the students. From his tenure at Poway and Abraxas High Schools as Associate Principal and Principal, to his service on the PUSD School Board since 1996, Mr. Patapow has worked diligently to create an environment where educational success has been achieved through collaboration. He has been recognized in the past by PTSA (Parent Teacher Student Association) as “Volunteer of the Year” and the San Diego County Red Ribbon as “Educator of the Year”.
We would like to formally recognize Andy Patapow at this time for his commitment to all of the stakeholders in PUSD: first and foremost, the students, as well as the parents, teachers, principals, librarians, secretaries, programmers, health services technicians, and dozens of additional groups of district personnel. The Poway Federation of Teachers is grateful for his dedicated service to this community through the variety of ways he has committed his time, effort, and talents:
● Founding member & current Board member, Safety Wellness Advocacy Community
Coalition (SWACC)
● Palomar Health Advisory
● Palomar Health Communities Grant Committee
● After-school Education and Safety Program (ASES)
● Character Counts Video Judge
● San Diego County Red Ribbon Representative
● Education Chair & Program Director of Sunrise Rotary
● Student Support Services and SWACC Forums Attendee
● Community Alliance for Healthy Minds (CAHM) Attendee
● Advocate for social & emotional support for students, counselors, and more SSS staff on
school sites
● MADD Supporter
● PUSD Tobacco Policy Advocate
ABOUT POWAY FEDERATION OF TEACHERS
The Poway Federation of Teachers (PFT) is the exclusive representative of the certificated teaching staff of the Poway Unified School District. The PFT is affiliated with the American Federation of Teachers (AFT) and California Federation of Teachers (CFT).
The emails from Poway Federation of Teacher Union “PFT”.
Is it even legal for a PFT union to use PUSD district resources (computers, email lists, teachers time while begin paid by PUSD, time for the district to read and respond to the emails) for political and fund raising activities?
I understand the emails have been in the thousands, for both political and fund raising activities.
Most likely illegal. If not, flood gates will open, especially in state, county and cities campaigns.
Imagine county, police, fire, state employees, union representative of all forms of government would be able to become a part of the campaign committees.
To be very clear, if the union had sent us that press release from a Poway Unified email, it would be a Rostra headline, on top of its own story. That would be the epitome of stupid.
We didn’t say, imply, infer or suggest in any way the PFT email above was sent to us using school district resources.
As to your question, it is against the law for any govt agency to use public resources for campaign purposes. We’d surmise you likely already know that.
The same goes for candidates, officeholders campaigning for reelection, any political committees, unions, etc. They can’t use public resources to campaign.
That said, you imply it is happening with PUSD. You would need to prove as much to continue to make such implications or allegations here. Or anywhere, really.
Just as incumbents running for office can campaign with their own resources, organized labor can as well. Receiving emails from either is meaningless, unless they come from a public email or computer.
That would most certainly be a story.
As for public employee unions having the resources, derived from dues, to campaign on the private dime… well, welcome to California. That’s another continuing story, as most readers here are very aware.
A follow up comment was posted by Poway Bogeyman, saying we took his last comment above in the wrong way, that he was not pointing to Rostra, but to those within Poway Unified that allowed the emails to be sent with PUSD’s resources. We likely did take it the wrong way.
Bogeyman’s comment goes on to allege that several within PUSD are allowing this to take place, and/or are forwarding the emails to others in the district while utilizing public resources. The allegations specify some employees by title as allowing it to happen.
If those things are taking place, it would very likely be a violation of state law. As well as a story.
Yet, we’re going to explain this ONE MORE TIME. Making such allegations of illegality without proof is potential libel. It possibly places Rostra in the position of allowing defamatory comments, especially if it’s coming from an anonymous commenter who then doesn’t need to take any responsibility for the allegations. It puts it on US.
Proof is NOT SAYING something happened. It’s PROVING that something happened. SHOWING it to be the case. It doesn’t matter if the commenter knows something to be true, believes it to be true, or has seen it with his/her own eyes.
Without substantiation, simply saying it happened means nothing. Except a potential libel problem for Rostra.
Bogeyman’s comment — which by now you can see why we won’t post — goes on to ask if anyone has DA Bonnie Dumanis’ phone number.
Does anyone reading Rostra have it? Is that the question? Seriously? Her office is listed.
Bogeyman also asks for help from Richard Rider and any attorneys. Have at it, readers. Email us at info@sdrostra.com and we’ll put you in touch with Bogeyman.
As far as any more comments including unsubstantiated allegations of illegal acts, we’ll automatically delete them, with no further explanation.
Carry on.
Another part of Bogeyman’s comment, which is simply stating a fact…
“From a response from FPPC concerning this matter:
“District staff and Board members should always bear in mind the potentially serious civil and criminal liability that may result from seemingly harmless actions. There is no “de minimis” level of public spending on a partisan campaign that would be acceptable under the applicable laws and rules. District officers should take steps to make clear to employees that they are not permitted to use any publicly funded, District-owned equipment for any political purposes in connection with a election or other politicial purposes, including District-issued cell phones, the District e-mail system, District-owned computers (including laptops issued to staff and used outside the office), phones, fax machines, etc. There are rare instances where the line is less than bright.
“However, a good guide may be that if the District prohibits or even discourages use of such resources for private purposes or conversations, it should definitely forbid any use for partisan campaigning.”
I am a man of great pride. When I say something I stand by my words. I enjoy looking at a person in his or her eyes and telling the truth. I loathe secrets and cowardice. Hell, I’m a former Marine Corps Officer. If you have a question for me have the intestinal fortitude to ask me with a real name attached. I will answer any question you want but I won’t answer a question to someone who lacks the moral strength to do it with an anonymous name. I’ve been around this community for 34 years. Those that know me understand me. Anytime anyone would like to have a conversation with me without preconceived lies perpetuated by Poway Unified School District, contact me. I would love to have an honest conversation. If you want me to answer questions on this forum, gain courage and put your name on it.
Very Respectfully,
Chris Garnier
I’m not a man of great age or political experience but I am a son of hard working family one generation removed from the Crips of Inglewood. I don’t claim to be a a financial guru nor a financial expert on bonds. I leave that to the experts but what I learned from my parents and was emphasized as I served this Great Nation as a Marine Corps Officer and Combat Helicopter Pilot, we must work with what is provided. The nerve of the district to borrow against our grandchildren is tuly alarming and disheartening. Poway Unified has illustrated to our community the idea of entitlement. The district has exemplified to our residents – we get what we want when we want it. The way I was raised and the character my parents instilled in me was to do the best with what I am given and to thank God when I am blessed to be given to. The billion dollar CAB fiasco is a great illustration of Mr. Collins’ inability to lead, guide and inspire with the gifts our community has blessed him with. Mr. Collins wants more and his ungratefulness and greed are a direct result of the state of our school district and our community.
“I would love to have an honest conversation. If you want me to answer questions on this forum, gain courage and put your name on it.”
Mr. Garnier… Thank you for that. Although anonymous comments are allowed on Rostra, it’s safe to say that for the most part anonymous posts are viewed as somewhat less credible than ones using real names.
We understand that. It’s somewhat the same issue we have with those making unsubstantiated allegations — anonymous posters sometimes think they can get away with more than if they used a name. It forces us to be the “bad guys” on disallowing comments.
Others have even chosen at times to ignore engaging with or answering questions from those choosing anonymity here. You of course may do as you please in that regard, but it seems this could be a fair warning to “anons” — they may not get an answer from you unless they choose to use their real names.
Fair enough.
Mr. Garnier, I am not afraid to put a name to my comments. Can you explain to me how your grandchildren are affected by the CAB, you grandchildren are not committed to living in Poway for the next hundred years. Mr. Garnier, greed goes both ways (i.e. filing lawsuits against poor school districts.) Mr. Garnier, you say PUSD is perpetuating lies about you. What about your allegations against Dr. Collins, do you have any hard facts to support your allegations? Most importantly Dr. Collins was not voted into office. He was hired and as a community member you do not have the right to take him out of his position. Request a copy of Dr. Collins’ contract and see what will occur if the board members try to fire him from his position. You think the District is in a tough financial time, wait till the punitive damages come down on the District for such retaliation and wrongful termination.
But please let’s focus on what a school district is truly for. It’s not for adults, it’s for the students. Why don’t we talk about the amazing teachers recognized in the UT this week or talk about PUSD being one of the best school districts in the country. You know who is responsible for that. Not the board of PUSD (i.e. Beatty and Sellers). But the amazing administration and staff of PUSD.
T.A.,
Thanks for the clarification that my comments are considered to be “somewhat less credible” because I post anonymously. I thought it was because I post as a Democrat.
HQ, we know you’re joking (?), but that wasn’t addressed at you specifically. Based on the complaints and input we’ve had on allowing anonymity, it seems to be the general thought.
On the other hand, if readers do find anon comments less credible, why do some readers get so upset that we allow the practice? It seems they don’t find them credible, but they think other readers will.
As we’ve responded in the past, it you don’t like some comments, ignore them!
T.A.,
Sorry, I forgot the emoticon :).
Seriously though, I do think there is some merit to anonymity in that it allows the reader to focus (if he or she chooses) on what is actually being written and not on the writer.
Hello Folks, I imagine by now you are aware that my second attempt to collect the ten signatures did not succeed. This time we submitted fourteen signatures thinking that if one or two were not valid for whatever reason we would have a cushion. However, the Registrar of Voters (ROV) requires that the first page of ten signers must be valid and it does not matter if the four on the second page are valid or not. On our second submission, the tenth signer was not registered at the address she put on the petition.
I am collecting ten signatures today and will have the ROV verify that they are valid before serving Mr. Patapow. I expect to have everything completed tomorrow.
Mr. Garnier,
Let’s tell the audience why you’re no longer in the Military.
Let’s tell the audience how much $ you’ve cost PUSD.
Let’s tell the audience your real Main Objective.
Let’s tell the audience the TRUTH.
Or do you wish to remain Anonymous on these topics?
You want to recall a board member who has honorably served this community and PUSD over 50 years. Why? Because he doesn’t wine and dine Sellers or Beatty?
You want Dr. Collins removed as Superintendent. Why? Because he doesn’t want to be your friend?
You can’t even collect 10 valid signatures for the recall. What makes you think you can collect 10,000?
I have a suggestion: Spend your time and energy on your business and your family. If you’re as courageous and honorable as you claim to be, you’ll stop this madness and become a productive citizen of Poway.
Very Respectfully,
-Mr. Wonderful
Barry Jantz,
Thanks for the clarification but I think the point still stands that the SDCTA endorsed a huge bond offering without knowing what the terms would be and without having any taxpayer safeguards in place.
Glad to hear that SDCTA may be under better leadership now.
Mr Garnier,
You claimed to not understand CABs then concluded that they borrow against your grandchildren. You either understand them or you don’t. If you don’t understand them, you shouldn’t draw conclusions.
A CAB is a zero coupon bond. You might borrow $20 today and pay $100 20 years later. You could also borrow $80 today and pay $1 year (in interest) for 20 years then pay back the original $80. Either way, you paid back the same amount of money.
Why finance projects with CABs then? Sometimes, cash flow is an issue but an expanding tax base is expected. For example, if a city plans to triple the housing units in 10 years, but has to build the infrastructure for the future housing units, they finance with a CAB.
As HQ stated, CABS are not inherently bad instruments but, if applied incorrectly, they wreak havoc. It appears that PUSD did not acquire the future tax revenue they anticipated.
Blaming PUSD members for choosing CABs is silly– blaming them for lousy sinking fund planning isn’t.
Where is Ashly McGlone to report on this incompetence? Haven’t heard from her since Garnier/Wilson couldn’t find any other family members that can remember their address. I wonder why that is….hmmmm…getting rid of John Collins must be a better story than two people who need to bring in mom and dad for financial and political support yet fail not once, but twice in getting a whopping 10 people together. Obviously, making accusations and using inappropriate language at Board meetings is far easier.
For the few (yes, few despite claims from Garnier/Wilson) who have hooked your wagon to them, I hope your eyes are finally opening to the people who have aligned yourself with. If not, you are more than likely A. one of the people that can’t remember their address or B. their mom and dad.
And Mr. Wonderful, I would like to know the answers to the questions you posed to Mr. Garnier as well…however, the Garniers and Wilsons have a habit of avoiding answering direct questions. But I guess they are pre-occupied in getting their Friend status up on Facebook or trying to find 10 people who know their correct address…three separate times.
RSmith,
I am patiently waiting for a response from Chris (he hates being called Chris). I am sure he is waiting for Mr. Wilson and Mrs. Garnier to help him proof read for errors prior to posting.
As for Ashly Mcglone, she’ll pop in again once the recall is approved and the whopping 10 signatures needed are verified.
It’s a shame the students of PUSD have been robbed of the focus they deserve. However, this will soon be water under the bridge and Poway Unified will rise above the ignorance bestowed upon them by 2 parents out of 70,000 within the district.
Mr. Robertson,
I thank you, sir, for your courage and your true desire to learn and understand my thoughts and opinions instead of attacking my family and me while hiding behind a fictitious, anonymous name. I have been in this community since I was 3 years old. My parents own a home in Bridlewood located across the street from Poway High School. Our family owns two homes in the Valle Verde area also located in Poway. I am a son of the Poway Unified School District as my wife, Kim, is a daughter of the district. My love for the Poway Unified School District is palpable and equal to if not greater than most. In the history of Rancho Bernardo High School, two CIF Championships have been won in football. I was on both of those teams in 1993 and 1995. I took a full football scholarship to the University of Hawaii from Rancho Bernardo High School. Kim and I have decided to raise our three children in this community because of our love for Poway Unified School District. We are not going anywhere and our hope and prayer is that our children return to this area so Kim and I have the pleasure to see our grandchildren attain the same success the Garnier and Wilson family has attained while residing in this community.
However, verified by the Electronic Municipal Market Access System or the EMMA, the CAB was forced on the weak characters of the Board of Education members to include Trustee Patapow. Our community will be paying on this debt until 2051. Included is the link to further educate yourself. http://emma.msrb.org/IssueView/IssueDetails.aspx?id=EA342600
Mr. Robertson, you are correct, my family could move to a different location and I am positive many would be happy to have less people of color or lower socioeconomic families reside in this community but we are not going anywhere.
The allegations about Dr. Collins and his immoral, unethical behavior is common knowledge within our community. Talk to those teachers and service staff who served with him while he was an Assistant Principal at Twin Peaks Elementary School. His home was foreclosed on though he was under contract for 100’s of thousands of dollars while his wife was taking home 6 figures as a senior teacher within the school district. His attorney, Daniel Shinoff, was just forced to pay the San Ysidro School District 1.8 million dollars for fraudulent, unscrupulous law practices, yet Mr. Collins and Trustee Patapow remain steadfast in retaining Shinoff’s services. Stand by Mr. Robertson, greater examples of fraud and greed will continue to be exposed as our community fights to recall Trustee Patapow and I am proud to help lead this much needed and overdue recall.
You are correct Mr. Robertson, Mr. Collins is not an elected official but Trustee Patapow is. Trustee Patapow has allowed Mr. Collins to rob our community as he has chosen to look the other way. We live in a democracy. Those that are elected to the Board of Education have a responsibility to represent the people who elected them. This community has been demanding a change, hence the election of all new Board of Education members since the CAB, with the exception of Mr. Patapaow who was not up for reelection. Now it’s time to eliminate the one obstinate Trustee and elect a community member who has the strength to fire Mr. Collins and begin the healing process that our community so desperately needs, desires and deserves.
Lastly Mr. Robertson, I have read Mr. Collins’ contract thoroughly. Within his contract exists morality clauses. Any other attorney besides Dan Shinoff would be skilled enough to assist the current Board of Education to release Mr. Collins from his current contract void any additional “buy out” payment. I also know that Mr. Collins is terrible with money. He would have no ability to legally fight the school district without potentially sending his family to bankruptcy court. The great Colin Powell advises, “Don’t take counsel from fear or naysayers.” Our community needs to stop being frightened by what could happen and develop moral strength, determined to do what is righteous, not what is popular or what feels good.
And Mr. Wonderful, unless you work with Mark Cuban on the hit show Shark Tank, I will repeat myself, I don’t answer questions from people who lack the moral courage and remain anonymous.
Chris,
Thank you for avoiding my questions. I guess your fear of the truth is greater than my fear of revealing my identity.
I’d like to add another question to my list:
Why are you so upset about the CAB’s yet you’re costing the district tens of thousands of dollars AND suing on top of that for an amount I will not disclose?
If you appeared on the hit show Shark Tank, would you pick up and drop Mark Cuban like you did Drew Carey on The Price is Right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQC-zOLandg
Your hypocrisy is off the charts.
Very Respectfully,
Mr. Wonderful
Isn’t Patapow’s term up in about a year?
At the earliest, I assume, that means that they will have a recall that “spares” PUSD from Patapow for around 6/7 months?
Mr. Garnier,
About firing Collins being easy….
In a word, no.
Here is the old contract (see below)
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/CollinsContractOldNew.pdf
Here is the specific link to the ED code referenced on page 5 of Collins Contract
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=edc&group=44001-45000&file=44930-44988%20t,%20or%20for%20any%20of%20the%20grounds%20enumerated%20under%20Education%20Code%20Section%2044932
My understanding is that while this is the “old” one, the termination clauses have not changed.
And just so the readers of Rostra are clear, as I understand it the innuendos about Collins, it is that 20 years ago while a Principal he had an affair with a married teacher (who was also married to another teacher at the same site). Lots of divorces happened and Collins and the said teacher got married. Messy? Sure. Probably not the best of judgement. But the proponents of the recall have yet to show that it somehow violated DISTRICT policy. Now I would agree it SHOULD be district policy to prohibit workplace dating between a principal and a teacher (prudent management practices) but if not then that doesn’t work.
Now then, we get to “well a skilled lawyer should figure it out!” Doubtful. As loyal readers of Rostra will know, California law makes dismissal of public school employees difficult. It is far more likely that an effort to use the activities at Twin Peaks would embroil the district in a wrongful termination suit and cause 2-3-4 years of turmoil. Huge distractions. Erosion of community support. Chaos at the district office.
And for what? His contract expires at the end of the 2016-17 school year (for those counting at home that is a bit more than 18 months). While people will disagree it isn’t at all clear that he would be supported for renewal (or even wants it). So we will go through all this – the recall, the threats, the rumor mongering, the ridiculousness of the threats last week at PFT which take away from the kids to get rid of Collins 2-3 months before his contract expires. It is seeking a scalp at its worst – done not to improve the education of 40K kids but to validate a personal grudge.
What SHOULD the proponents be doing (and I have told them this directly)
A) Get the board focused on transition planning. Pretty clear that a good chunk of the community wants a break from the past. Probably a good thing. Bureaucracies grow stale. So if you want a REAL process you would want to position things so you are starting the head hunters to start work in the Spring of this year. They could start vetting folks by the summer and doing some of the quiet interviews in the Fall of 16. Anyone we want already is a super someplace else so needs to be delicate. THEN you could have an open vetting of the finalists, engaging the community in late winter/early spring and get the appointment made by June 17. But that means the board needs to get working NOW on this, not waste its gosh darn time with a recall.
B) Get out of the gosh darn weeds. Chris, I say this as a fellow dad of a kid of color – you really haven’t made the case that the district has a systemic race problem. Make that case and I will be right there with you storming the barricades. Nor have critics shown there is a systemic problem about kicking balls over a wall. The CAB is a bad deal but it isn’t clear it has a systemic problem with spending money. You are playing wack a mole – rather than ID’ing big picture problems and working on them…
And here is one. The district has built up a number of “schools of choice programs (los pen academy; BMMS academy; D39; Valley Immersion) without really a strategic plan as to why….and how they “fit” together. They need to. Asking them to strategic plan would be a good thing. Another is Gabby Dow’s legitimate complaint that the district lacks an IT plan and hasn’t tried to figure out how to have one in an environment where so much of our IT hardware is paid by site foundations. Both big picture issues, and unadressed by the the current Admin.
Or the long term issue that school enrollment in PUSD will shrink. The district has reached it max size pending lots of infill and redevelopment. How will it manage that? How will it try to get some students on the west side (where schools are crowded) in schools on the East (where they are underused).
We have a great school district in PUSD – with a PUSD teacher (again) winning county teacher of the year and another one up for a Grammy for recognition of her work as a music educator. Test scores consistently have been high and the district hasn’t had a strike in 20+ years and has maintained solid financial footing even during the Great Recession. Rather than lashing out, because of a personal conflict, the critics would be far better served – and far better serve the district – by focusing on real issues and real places where reform is needed rather than think their lives will be complete by firing someone 3-4 months before their contract runs out.
Yes Sage. Patapow’s term ends November 16. Assuming everything aligns perfectly it would mean a consolidated recall election in June 2016 with that trustee having run AGAIN in November. It would also mean that if the recall people succeed and given Collins contract that they MIGHT be able to get rid of him sometime in the September/October time frame. Given that – they would get an interim super (from the people that Collins has hired over the past few years) and thus likely continue to PO them off because few good candidates would leave their existing district so close to the opening of the school year….or the new board majority will try to hire a non-educator with all the chaos that will create (see exhibit A – Alan Bersen behind curtain #1).
Sage,
Mr. Patapow’s term is up in 2016. Recalls take time and cost tens of thousands of dollars. The Garnier and Wilson family have made a “mountain out of a mole hill.”
It’s best to let Mr. Patapow serve his term and let the voters decide to re-elect him or not should he decide to run again.
Unfortunately, the Garniers or Wilsons wouldn’t get the attention they thrive from if they’d just let Mr. Patapow finish his term.
Very Respectfully,
Mr. Wonderful
Chris,
Publishing Dr. Collins’ personal history doesn’t do anything but diminish the small amount of character you possess.
PUSD is part of the reason home values in Poway and the surrounding areas are so high. The more you continue your senseless bashing of the people who’ve made this district great, the more likely PUSD’s reputation will suffer and home values will decline.
Quit playing the race card. I look past your color and see a man who needs help. I think those who truly know you feel the same way.
Very Respectfully,
Mr. Wonderful
“Now it’s time to eliminate the one obstinate Trustee and elect a community member who has the strength to fire Mr. Collins and begin the healing process that our community so desperately needs, desires and deserves.”
You have that chance in November of 2016 and yet, the earliest you will be able to legally “remove” the trustee is in June of 2016.
I have to ask you Mr Garnier; are you, your wife, or father-in-law planning to run for that seat (in either June or November of next year?)
If you do, I gotta hand it to you– this generates a lot of free media for you
Mr. Brady,
Chris can’t run for the seat. The restraining order in place for the principal at Painted Rock Elementary would prevent Chris from being able to attend meetings should the principal be in attendance.
As far as I am concerned, the only media the Garniers have generated is negative and absurd.
Very Respectfully,
Mr. Wonderful
Poway Unified Offers Friendly Reminder to Staffers That Their Political Email Blasts Are Illegal
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/education/poway-unified-offers-friendly-reminder-to-staffers-that-their-political-email-blasts-are-illegal/
I have some questions that I hope someone can answer. What is the difference between a “Whoops we filled out the paperwork incorrectly” and voter fraud?
Assuming this process actually ever gets off the ground, what is the time delay between the initial petition being approved and the 10k signature gathering period?
Here is an editorial on the topic of this recall. http://www.pomeradonews.com/news/2015/oct/15/Editorial-blooming-pusd-recall-nipped-in-bud/
RB Resident…
I can answer the first, hopefully the proponents will answer the second.
Voter fraud is a very different matter than this. As proved twice now, the Registrar of Voters has a simple and immediate process to ensure the validity of signers on a petition that has only a handful of signatures.
As well, there isn’t an implication of purposely submitting invalid signatures here, it is more a matter of not knowing the process mixed with the proponents not taking the time to ensure the validity of signatures on their own.
For example, I go to ten of my neighbors and ask them if they’re registered to vote and then, if they say yes, I ask them to sign something. In the mix may be those that believe they are registered, because they don’t realize they didn’t re-register after they moved following the last election, or some other anomaly. Then, instead of taking those signatures to the Registrar and checking the registrations and addresses on my own, I simply submit them in my haste.
The proponents, as probable neophytes to this type of process, learned this lesson, now twice.
But, it is not akin to purposeful voter fraud.
Now that the issue that email campaign by the PUSD employees was determine illegal by the District Attorney. What is the consensus of the consequence that these employees should receive.
Should a teacher have the same discipline as a union representative or leader that advise the membership to act in an unlawful behavior?
From a standpoint of fairness, should we, the public allow such behavior by public unions? The Democratic Party would most likely benefit more from this type of union activity.
I would think that Patapow, T J Zane as Republicans would not support this type of activity. As a Democrat I would not. However, from the emails it appears that Patapow started this unlawful venture with a request to Wendy Anderson.
How should Patapow be held accountable?
With regard to this latest “illegal email” problem at Poway Unified School District (http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/education/poway-unified-offers-friendly-reminder-to-staffers-that-their-political-email-blasts-are-illegal/), I charted out the potential amount of sunk costs and was shocked to see that with just this issue of the DA investigating the emails from Boardmember Patapow via PUSD employee and board secretary and the Teacher’s Union to 1,600 teachers each time (plus all “Directors”), 37 principals rushing to the District office, and general disruption of news headlines as ongoing scandals cause all PUSD employees to waste time and take focus away from kids, not to mention the mounting legal costs and $500,000 per year for a Superintendent who is essentially operating a downward spiral… well, just for this latest little stint we could be looking at over $100,000 in wasted effort.
$127,798 to be more exact from what I consider to be conservative calculations. You can see my chart here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRfD4hPUYAA9dxm.jpg
Can you imagine what any one of our schools could do with an extra $127,000?? PE teacher? Music teacher or instruments? Math coach? Science lab? Tech equipment? A long-term tech plan and basic tech training and support for the teachers?
When I think of how much effort goes into my kids’ school foundation’s annual Trail Run fundraiser to net a precious $35,000 which is the only funding available for technology and other programs for the students, I am sick looking at the added sunk cost of how our district is being managed with one of these scandals and distractions after another. Just sick.
Mrs. Dow, just a point of clarification. Neither of those emails went out to all 1600 teachers. The email from Kelly at the PFT was sent to some of the PFT site reps. Everyone is looking to get some more clarification from legal this week. Andy’s email went out to admin only. Charles Sellers also sent out an email on the recall but again that only went out to administration.
Peter, you should get Kelly Logan email dated October 9, 2015 12:20 p,m emailed to 148 PFT Reps. However, these 148 reps are teachers first and union reps second.
Here is Kelly directions in his email
Dear PFT Reps,
Please forward this following email to all teachers at your site. Please ensure the attachments also forwards. It is a copy of our press release in support of Andy. We are holding on an official request for Facebook post for the moment. Thanks for your patience.
Kelly directions to these site reps would have indicated that all the teachers got the email. Did some of the site reps not follow Kelley directions?
The email was not sent out at Poway High School. There might be other sites as well.
In the end, no one seems to know if the recall is still on or not though. On the Pomerado news site you said your leadership style was to pick up the phone and find out the answer. Who would you call to find the answer?
“On the Pomerado news site you said your leadership style was to pick up the phone and find out the answer.”
Who?
As a Marine Corps Ofiicer in both Iraq and Afghanistan I was forced to deal with the truth. Anything less than the truth had the potential to cause unnecessary loss of life. The truth that I know, the ROV approved our petition and Trustee Patapow has seven days to answer should he desire to do so.
Well, 148 site reps (teachers) did receive the email. I have copies of some 15 emails from teachers. I believe there are a lot more. Jackie Whitaker was one of 148 site reps on Kelly Logan email, she is a site rep for Poway High School. Maybe Jackie was a asleep at the wheel, somewhat like Patapow asleep at board meetings. Or, Jackie could be very smart or brave enough to understand that the union directions from Kelly Logan were illegal and chose not to participate. If that’s the case, bravo for her. Peter your email to the district offices came from your private account and before school hours. Good job, another bravo. Not true for many of your associates. They chose to use school computers, PUSD email system and use time on the PUSD’s clock to violate education and election laws. Not Good!
Keith Wilson, is that obvious? Or take Chris Garnier at his post above!
Peter, you should identify yourself as a Poway Unified School teacher that according to Transpent California earned $96,995.93 from the PUSD in 2014. There is $4,994.48 in extra money in your salary which is really not identified for any purpose. I did notice that Kelly Logan was paid the exact same amount and he is a union representative. Can you explain the extra money? Is that for your union activities or for what? Please respond.
Gosh. LOTTA posts here.
I don’t think anyone touched on this. To me part of the con job of CAB’s is that the INTEREST RATE is normally considerably above conventional bonds. It’s a huge profit center for the folks pushing for these bonds, as that feature makes the bonds quite attractive to investors.
If the CAB pays a 1.5% higher interest rate than regular tax-free bonds and it’s a 40 year payment-deferred bond (the worst case that is no longer tolerated), the compounding effect of that higher interest rate is — well — compounded.
As I see it, clueless part-time school board members (not just Poway) passively accepted the bond “experts” judgement on what the interest rate should be. The district staff didn’t help — they’d be retired when the reality set in. The bureaucrats LOVE more money today (even for “office supplies” such as I-Pads) that won’t have to be paid for until much, MUCH later. Screw the grandkids (whoever they may be) who have to pay up.
Thanks for the clarification Peter, I welcome any other points of correction or suggestions to the calculations that I quickly put together (estimated blended hourly rate for teachers, principals, etc or number of minutes that are more realistically being spent during working hours by all staff, or the total number of PUSD staff and how many actually received emails and other information each time the union and district office mobilize to attack specific board members and support others).
There is nobody to blame for all of this wasted time and resources but the Teacher’s Union leaders and Boardmember Patapow who contacted a PUSD employee in the superintendent’s office and asked her to forward his political message. We need to learn whether the PUSD employee asked her boss, Superintendent Collins, whether or not she should comply with Patapow’s request — I find it hard to believe that a message to that many recipients would ever go out without the Superintendent’s knowledge.
What I hope is that everyone in the community starts to look all of this wasted time in terms of true cost: financial as well as diverted focus, wasted time, wasted opportunity, lagging curriculum and lacking on-campus resources, basically continuing to slip behind as reinforcement of illegal and unethical activities ultimately create a culture that is opposite of what we want for our children.
I find it shameful, quite frankly, that a supposed teachers’ representative would use terminology like “rogue individuals” to describe concerned parents and community members who are asking important questions, and to furthermore implore EVERY SINGLE teacher in the district to carry that irresponsible language to the community’s own elected officials:
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/pft_email.pdf
Am I a “rogue individual” in the community for raising these issues and wanting to read the recall petition to see if I agree with it or not?
Is anyone who questions actions by PUSD that have been deemed illegal and wasteful by other public agencies, governing bodies, as well as by community leaders, regional media and even the district’s own expert consultants to be considered a “rogue” enemy to be smeared among our kids’ very own teachers?
Is the Teacher’s Union and their most supportive boardmembers (Patapow and Zane) following in history’s footsteps when it comes to dealing with “rogue individuals”? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(vagrant)
As teachers, you should all know the definition of the words you are using, and as educators I hope you are teaching our children to think for themselves and consider the meaning of words, to attack information and ideas, not by following blindly in copying/pasting messages and rallying others to label specific people with derogatory labels, but by pointing to specific actions, laying out facts and evidence to apply critical thinking and come up with solutions for how to improve.
Please look up the dictionary definition of “rogue” and while all 1,600 of you are at it (during non-working hours), please also look up the definition of “bullying” and “group-think.”
Actually, I’ll help with that last one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people, in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints, by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences.
Loyalty to the group requires individuals to avoid raising controversial issues or alternative solutions, and there is loss of individual creativity, uniqueness and independent thinking. The dysfunctional group dynamics of the “ingroup” produces an “illusion of invulnerability” (an inflated certainty that the right decision has been made). Thus the “ingroup” significantly overrates its own abilities in decision-making, and significantly underrates the abilities of its opponents (the “outgroup”). Furthermore, groupthink can produce dehumanizing actions against the “outgroup”.
THIS GROUP-THINK PHENOMENA IS EXACTLY what the PUSD Superintendent’s own expert consultant tried to explain just a few months ago to the Superintendent (report link below), but Collins’ decision to edit the report and try to hide it from the board and the public demonstrated yet again a broken culture that refuses change, improve and deal with reality:
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/PUSDJulyvsMarch2015.pdf
The expert analysis following 100 PUSD interviews clearly stated in the final report:
“In terms of the PUSD System… Culture: The ‘Po-Way,’ as it was often referred to by stakeholders, seems to have created a culture in which PUSD staff may find it difficult to think critically about district practices and learn from others outside the district.”
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/education/before-releasing-harsh-report-poway-superintendent-softened-criticisms/
Is this what we should accept for our kids, our community and our legacy as parents, grandparents, teachers and thoughtful, responsible citizens?
Wow, double wow.
Gabriela, what a home run. I sincerely hope the PUSD board of trustee and employees learn that the Poway way is not the only way. I am so sick and tired always hearing it is the Poway way or no way.
You’re posting under a pseudonym but you are attacking for not disclosing enough information. I have nothing to hide. I am a teacher at Poway High School. I am member and leader of the Poway Federation of Teachers. In full disclosure I also volunteer with the cub scouts, but seeing as you somehow have a copy of the email I sent from my personal account, on my personal time, from my personal computer, you already knew all that. You also know that I am a parent and a taxpayer in PUSD as well.
The extra $4k you are referring to is from teaching summer school. I’m not sure how accurate the information on that site is. It posts a total compensation package, but I don’t use the district’s health insurance. I used to use the district’s dental and vision for a while but now we use my wife’s insurance.
The $700.00 is from working on Saturdays.
The other $140.00 is from covering classes during my prep time when there were not enough subs.
I started teaching 1995 and I started teaching in PUSD in 1999. I have Bachelor’s degree from St. John’s University in Queen, N.Y. where I was a member of an honor’s program that consisted of the top 150 students in a university with over 19,000 students. In the interest of full disclosure, I got a discount there because my father was a professor. I have a Master’s degree in education from San Marcos University but I didn’t stop there. I have lost count of how many graduate credits past my Master’s degree I have earned.
Now that I have answered all of your questions, maybe you could share why you are using a pseudonym and how you got a copy of my email.
You volunteer for the cub scouts, did not know that. Chris Garnier volunteered for the Few, the Proud, the Marines. If you are trying to impress me, cub scouts is not going to work.
The pseudonym is the name that a union leader called me. I am the boogeyman for PUSD. I shorten the name a bit. My call sign in the Navy was Too Tall. I am only 5’10” so I am not a tall individual. Go figure. Graduated from “The University”, University of Texas at Austin. Joined the navy out of college and graduated from AOCS NAS Pensacola. Remember an officer and gentleman with Richard Gere. It was actually extremely more difficult than in the movie. But the girls were real.
Finished basic flight school, transfered to the NAS Miramar assigned to a squadron of F4 Phantoms, fast movers, and we trained to shoot down MIGs, no points for Second Place. Went to Top Gun ground school. I think to get the best of the best. Over 2,000 hours in the Phantoms. Over three hundred carrier arrested landings. Over a 100 night time landings.
Tell me you volunteer to rise your life every for a single day; that would impress me. Masters degree in Accounting and Auditing.
How about you get me into PUSD for a little look around? I’ll share with you all of my sources. Let me know.
Collins has lots of enemies that he himself has created. Many still work inside the district. Read Bob Moore report in the original version. I am amazed every day the risks that people will take to get the truth out. Bottom line, Patapow apparently requested the district to do something unlawful, at least by the email from Wendy Anderson. Senior personnel at PUSD decided to break the law. Law breakers should be punished, or do you have a different set of values?
These unlawful actions need to have the light shined on them.
Did you know that most correspondence with the district is available for review, certainly all of these emails. Someone saved me some time in a document request. However, I will be submitting a more comprehensive PRA request for all of the emails for all of the schools tomorrow.
For the record, I was not exactly for the recall. But Patapow’s apparent illegal request for PUSD to help has made my mind to support the recall.
The district wasted a lot of money last week. The amount could have purchased a lot of supplies, pencils, paper that teachers ask for donations from Parents in order to purchase. Eight Million in pay raises, but the teachers have to beg for donations for supplies. If you ask me IBPS does not seem to work all that well.
Teachers begging for supplies, because the District does not have any money in the budget. If Gabriela’s calculation is correct, over a $100,000 was wasted. Gabriela did not include the emails from Candy Smiley that was a PFT’s fund raising email campaign for COPE in order to have a war chest for 2016 elections. Another email to all teachers. Another totally illegal act by your union leader.
Does Candy have any of these illegal acts documented in her official personnel records? Too bad personnel records are confidential. Want to take a side and make a bet if any exists? I will take the side of “No”. Let me know if you are interested.
Maybe, should I send an email to Wendy to ask for them? One illegal act for another? You are a union leader, think it will work?
Re-read Gabriela Dow’s post on October 18, 2015 at 12:27 pm. It says it all. The public does not want a District that is breaking the law whenever Collins desires. They want the district to follow the law. How much money has been paid in claims against the district, legal fees for the plaintiff and to Shinoff? The district will not answer that question, even with a PRA!
The times are changing “It going to be the legal way not the Poway way for the future.”
What I find so interesting in all of these posts is the failure of Ms. Beatty and her sidekick, Poway Bogeyman, to disclose and/or provide the email from Trustee Charles Sellers, sent two days after Mr. Patapow’s email to the exact same group of people. In a CYA effort to not draw attention to the fact that he and Kimberley Beatty teamed up with Tom Moore and Keith Wilson to spearhead the (three times a charm!) recall campaign, Mr. Sellers sent the following:
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2015 12:14 PM To: ..All Directors ; ..Principals-All ; Anderson, Wendy ; Beatty, Kimberley ; Collins, John ; McDowell, Tina ; O’Connor-Ratcliff, Michelle ; Patapow, Andy ; Sellers, Charles ; Zane, TJ Subject: Message from Board Member Charles Sellers Importance: High
Dear Colleagues,
Board Member Charles Sellers has asked that I share the following with you:
A Message from Board Member Charles Sellers
Dear Colleagues,
I have read Andy Patapow’s version of events and, while generically correct, they do omit many specific details which I believe shed considerable light on what actually took place.
First, let me state emphatically that I am neither a participant in nor a proponent of this recall effort. I did, however, hear about it and contacted Keith Wilson to learn if it was true. When he confirmed that it was, I asked if he planned to give Andy any warning about what was coming his way. I felt that after 50 years of service to public education that’s the least he was owed. I was told that if I felt that strongly about it I could tell him myself.
This was not an easy thing to do and anyone with an ounce of political sense wouldn’t have touched it with a ten foot pole. But I am not a politician and I believed that it was morally incumbent upon someone to at least let Andy determine his own fate. Here is where we start to correct some of the facts.
At no time did I ever utter the word resign, much less suggest that he do so. I did say that I saw three possible options. Retire, Do nothing and let the process play out, or Contact the parties to see if some compromise short of recall could be worked out. I also said there might be other options but I had not thought of any. Andy was very gracious and thanked me for giving him the heads up. He did not appear bitter nor did he seem to blame me for what was happening. I gave him a copy of the petition. It lacked signatures because they were not given to me. I told him that he could probably guess who was behind it anyway, which he agreed.
I did not give him a “decision deadline” of Monday. He asked how much time he had and I stated that the proponents told me they planned to go forward on Monday if they did not hear from him. It was their timeline, not mine. He rose and shook my hand and said that he needed to consult with some people and that he would be in touch.
I did not hear from him so I called at 11:30 am on Monday to see if he needed anything from me. He said that he and his wife were still discussing it and had not made any decisions. I asked if he wanted more time. He said “Well, that’s up to you”. So, I called Keith Wilson who agreed to wait another 24 hours before proceeding. I then texted this information to Andy.
At about 1:30 pm on Tuesday, I got a call from Andy who asked “What’s goin’ on?” I replied that “I have no idea what’s goin’ on Andy” and he said “OK, thanks”. It was literally a ten second conversation. The next contact I received was his email through the District.
Anyone who tries to make more out of my involvement than what I have just described is at best ignorant, since they weren’t there, and at worst putting their own political spin on events.
I made a humane attempt to soften the blow of an oncoming train to another person. In hindsight, it made little difference to the outcome of events. But I have no regrets for that and I encourage each of you to ask Andy what, if anything, I have written here that is not true.
End of email
———————————————————————————————–
Bogeyman, you stated, “Now that the issue that {sic} email campaign by the PUSD employees was determine {sic} illegal by the District Attorney. {sic} What is the consensus of the consequence that these employees should receive. {sic}”
Still feel the same way now that your buddy’s email has been published? Not to worry – despite your complete misappropriation of the truth, there is, and never has been, an investigation by the District Attorney’s office and consequently, there is no determination of illegality, let alone consequence. Get your facts straight Bogeyman.
Gaby Dow, all of the teachers and employees that you’re scolding with your vast breadth and depth of educational background (from where???) are the very stakeholders who will not be voting for you when you toss your hat in the ring for the 2016 election. I would caution you to be more careful with the “facts” and accusations that you’re throwing around.
Kimberley Beatty, the more you and Mr. Sellers align yourselves with Chris Garnier, Kim Garnier, and Keith Wilson, the more credibility you lose with everyone associated with the district you represent. The more you use them as mouthpieces to attempt to bring down the leadership of PUSD, the more ludicrous you look. Who knows, keep going and maybe the district will get a restraining order against the whole herd and you can all spend your time at the racetrack with Mr. Wilson placing bets. I can think of 35,000 reasons why this would be the best possible outcome for PUSD.
Chris Garnier,
I am still waiting for your answers to my questions. I think it’s fair to say others who read this thread are also waiting for your answers.
You’re suing PUSD and you have a GoFundMe account; one could easily assume you’re doing this for money and attention.
Did you leave the Military or did the Military leave you?
Simple question.
Very Respectfully,
Mr. Wonderful
P. Martin pick up the phone and call Dan Shinoff at (619) 232-3122 and ask him if the District received any verbal or written orders from the District Attorney office regarding these emails. That what a good reporter would do, verify the facts first before publishing.
Get your facts straight that very good advice you should take it.
Poway Bogeyman, please inform all of us where you got information that the DA contacted Mr. Shinoff. Because at this time the DA has refused to discuss this matter. Unless you are making up false allegations. Please support your claims.
PUSD4Life:
Thanks for your comment. We allow anonymity on the site for those who’d like to post comments that way. We don’t “out” anyone if we happen to know their real name; nor do we allow others to do so; nor do we allow them to allege that a commenter is someone they may not in fact be.
We have edited your comment accordingly, but will remove it if you’d prefer that instead.
Thank you.
So I’m sitting in a 4-hour meeting this morning on a topic that is almost as important as education (water infrastructure) and my cell phone starts blowing up with notes from community-members and teachers who had already warned me that PUSD will target and villify families and students who dare question the Superintendent and Union leaders.
I had already been warned by teachers in the district that if I dare speak up and question (much less criticize) the Superintendent or Teacher’s Union President, the retribution would be silent, shady and personal: against my kids and family, to relentlessly try to drive us out of the District as so many other families, teachers and others been driven away. I didn’t quite believe that.
But here’ s what one of the messages said this morning: “Be careful Gaby, Collins’ attackers have their sights on you because you’re having a huge impact…they will bully your kid’s teachers and try to intimidate your family, anything to shut you up.”
I can clearly see some of the attempts to intimidate me and my family, and I will address each instance head-on through the proper channels. Collins and his “attackers” have a long history of using tax-payer district resources (like PUSD attorneys, communication channels, all that time they should be spending on educating our kids…) to intimidate and drive out families, teachers and anyone else who dares to question why our district has started falling behind.
A few messages directed me to this site to see the “caution” from P.Martin. He/she surely has heard from the multiple friends, families, teachers and community leaders that have been asking me for quite some time now to run for school board. I have no doubt that I would be an outstanding, ethical, knowledgeable public servant / elected official, but I will repeat here what I tell the many people who ask me to run for office: “I am already too busy running my own business, enjoying time with my husband, raising our boys, volunteering inside their classrooms and on the board of their school foundation, contributing to the economic development of our region through public/private ventures, and having a blast mentoring tech entrepreneurs and helping them raise capital for startup opportunities to continue to increase.”
None of the information I share or actions I take are because I want to, or plan to, run for elected office — I am simply doing what I have always done: speaking up when I see wrong-doing and abuse of public finances and of people who can’t defend themselves against a mob. I love my community (have lived in San Diego since 1980), I love my kids’ schools, I do not want this district to continue falling behind and I don’t want my home value to decline.
Forgive me for paying attention and speaking up when I could see firsthand example after example of things that were clearly wrong with my kids’ school district (I have worked with more than 100 public agencies over the past 20 years and the dysfunction and groupthink phenomena is so clear to anyone who has experience in other professional settings). Believe me, I WISH things weren’t this way and I could focus my energies on continuing to raise money for tech for our schools and supporting the same amazing entrepreneur programs for PUSD that I am involved in for other school districts.
I want to reassure “P.Martin” and any other district “attackers” that neither I nor my family will be intimidated by these anonymous attacks, mass email campaigns, or attempts to scare, intimidate or bully us into silence — the same tactics the Superintendent and Union have tried to use against any boardmember that does not just rubber-stamp their costly and possibly illegal programs.
I just left the PUSD office and will repeat here what I said to Superintendent John Collin’s face: “Please accept responsibility for the disastrous decisions you have made and the offensive actions you continue to take.” He knows exactly what I am talking about.
I also had a chance to see TJ Zane and said this to him: “Please step up as an elected leader and work with the rest of your board to fix this. The community cannot suffer another day with Collins wasting our kids’ precious time and money.”
I believe TJ will do the right thing and work with the rest of the board to get us back on the right course. I wish John Collins the best in future endeavors and acknowledge some good work that he achieved at our school district and hope he can learn from the serious failures we parents are continuing to learn more about.
Finally, I have to have tremendous faith in the individual teachers at my kids’ school (they know me, they know my family and my sweet boys). My oldest is the elected school Principal and earned some of the highest state test scores in the entire school. My youngest was described by his last teacher as one of the most advanced boys in the classroom, and as a sweetheart she “wished she had 20 of in each class.”
I have to trust each of these teachers to recognize the serious failures in their union leadership and resist the pressure to cause hardship for my 8 and 10 year old boys. This is unimaginable, but current PUSD teachers were the first to warn me of this a few months ago when I started asking questions and speaking up.
I also fully trust the integrity of our new principal, who I believe is being greatly pressured to “deal with this rogue family” — but whom I believe will be as honorable as our previous principal was (I can only imagine what led that previous principal to flee PUSD altogether last spring for another school district — he had just been named SoCal Principal of the Year by a teaching organization and as quickly as we celebrated him he announced his resignation from PUSD). The most talented, honorable teachers, principals and staff are often the first to leave a dysfunctional, broken system like we have under John Collins and the Teacher’s Union.
People in San Diego, Poway, Rancho Bernardo and throughout SoCal know me and my family. I am acting out of the mutual love and respect that I have for these people and the rest of the community, especially those that find it difficult to use their own voice (or own name on forums like this, I suppose).
The last time I was threatened like this was when I rallied tech startups and community members to help remove disgraced Mayor Bob Filner. This situation with PUSD is shaping up in exactly the same way. I didn’t back down from that effort because speaking up, sharing what I knew, helping to understand the problem and working to find a solution was the right thing to do.
I will not be intimidated by John Collins and his “attackers” either.
POWAY UNIFIED OFFERS FRIENDLY REMINDER TO STAFFERS THAT THEIR POLITICAL EMAIL BLASTS ARE ILLEGAL by Ashly McGlone, Voice of San Diego | October 15, 2015
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/education/poway-unified-offers-friendly-reminder-to-staffers-that-their-political-email-blasts-are-illegal/
McGlone wrote “Poway Unified employees are being reminded not to use district resources for political purposes following a flurry of emails regarding the recall effort aimed at longtime board member Andy Patapow. Complaints were also lodged with the San Diego County district attorney’s office, according to those interviewed by district attorney investigator Vincent Giaime”
McGlone further wrote “Attorney Dan Shinoff, Poway Unified’s contracted general counsel, confirmed staff members were being reminded of state laws barring the use of district funds and equipment for political purposes, including missives to support or defeat specific political candidates.” McGlone even give you the Education Code!
If you think that Voice of San Diego is wrong with the their research and statements. Pick up the phone and call Dan Shinoff at (619) 232-3122 (PUSD’s Attorney) and ask him if the District Attorney relayed any verbal or written instructions to Shinoff concerning these emails blast. I suggest simply yes no questions.
I am not your source, do the research yourself.
Maybe there is confusion between the terms “the District’s attorney” and “The District Attorney.”
http://boardofeducationpoway.blogspot.com/?m=1 This an interesting read.
Now we know that Beatty and Sellers knew about the recall on Sept 8. It is safe to infer that they had a larger roll?
It is interesting that at the October 19, 2015, board meeting Mrs. Beatty represented to the community that she is an attorney. When in fact when you look at the state bar website she is not an attorney at all. This information needs to get out to the public. In addition, Ms. Beatty stated she could not comment on her view of the recall efforts of Mr. Patapow. This was right after Mr. Zane and Mrs. Ratcliff stated they supported Patapow. Her comments insinuated that her two fellow board members just committed a crime. However, it is not illegal to support a board member. If she truly is a lawyer as she says she is, she would know that it is their first amendment rights to support him.
Collin Robertson is correct. At Monday’s board meeting, when agreeing with President Beatty that the board needed to hire additional attorneys, Charles Sellers stated, “We have the luxury of having two lawyers on our board who are willing to donate their time to participate in this process. That’s the whole reason you elect people to public office ‘cuz they bring certain skillsets.” Which two lawyers are you referring to Mr. Sellers? Mrs. O’Connor-Ratcliff is listed on the California State Bar website as being a licensed attorney. Mrs. Beatty however is nowhere to be found. Nor can you find her on the American Bar Association website as being a licensed attorney…nor having passed the bar in any state. It’s a crime in California to portray yourself as an attorney when you’re not. In addition, you have an obligation to rectify the situation if someone else portrays you as an attorney. Any comment Mrs. Beatty? And the reason she was so eager to discuss this issue ad nausem? Because she has one more month as president of the board before she is voted out of office. The clock is ticking on her promise to the Garnier/Wilson family to hire new legal counsel to magically make the permanent restraining order on Chris Garnier go away. Good luck with that one KB!
The last election was a referendum on the CABS. And note that if you check voter records only about 19% of eligible voters voted.
The community was sending a message about the CABS. Beatty and Sellers seem to be thinking that the last election was a mandate to attack everything about PUSD. It’s just not true. There is a very small but very vocal part of our community that is getting all of the attention.
Kudos to Collin Robertson and P Martin. The residents of this community deserve to know that the real culprits on the PUSD Board of Education are not Andy Patapow, T.J. Zane or Michelle O’Connor-Ratcliff but in fact are Charles Sellers and President Beatty.
After watching interviews and reading statements made by the Garniers, I have a suggestion for the Garnier family: Home School your children. Chris states time and time again he only wants to be with his children. Chris states time and time again he will not move his family because this is their home.
Satisfy the community by leaving PUSD alone while satisfying your dependency of needing access to your children 24/7; Home School.
Very Respectfully,
Mr. Wonderful
RBResident – precisely!! Again, there are things that could be done better at the district office. Breaking down the culture of the “Pow-Way” would be valuable. But the current napalming of a district that works (a Meadowbrook teacher is up for STATE teacher of the year, another PUSD teacher won county (again!) and another is up for a grammy as a music educator) is simply ridiculous, maddening, and so destructive.
And on the politics side have the critics actually taken time to READ the contract we have with the teachers? My goodness. It is about the best you could ever do in this state.
http://boardofeducationpoway.blogspot.com/2015/10/keith-wilson-and-fixation-with-sexual.html?m=1
I implore everyone to read this! Many of the articles here are worth readying
Ms. Sommer Recame, you’re posting blogs on par with the National Enquirer. What is YOUR opinion of the situation at PUSD? I’m not asking what a Union Rep told you to think or say or post. What are YOUR thoughts on the illegal negotiations and emails at PUSD? What are YOUR thoughts on the Superintendent making more than the President of the United States while Canyon View Elementary lacks basic play equipment and while Pomerado Elementary retains its original stage since 1960? What are YOUR thoughts on the Superintendent relaxing in his office complete with a shower, kitchen and fireplace while teachers and parents supply classroom basics such as pencils and tissues? There are serious problems facing this community. When our district received a report about MAJOR dysfunction in the IT department, our Superintendent didn’t fix the problems, he fixed the report with a red pen. Where is the honesty and integrity of our district leaders?
I’m asking what your thoughts are on the ISSUES. The idle gossip at the water cooler are simply irrelevant when we are faced with almost insurmountable problems. Gossip does not make those problems go away. Knowledge and critical thinking are imperative. Wearing blue shirts twice a year at Board Meetings and rallying behind the wolves in sheep’s clothing does nothing to rectify a downward spiral. When the Chula Vista School District is surpassing the Poway Unified School District, it’s time to take a hard look at our leaders and ask tough questions.
Please be more intelligent than that blog you reposted. Question everything you hear and be careful before you jump in with both feet. More stories will be brought to light in the coming months. Which side of history do you want your name and opinion associated with? Right now you’re simply shooting the messenger. We teach our children and students to be critical thinkers and to put on their “thinking caps”. This is great advice and advice we all must follow if we want PUSD to be great again.
Ms. Garnier, You talk about lack of funds for schools you tell me where this money comes from. Maybe you would drop your lawsuit and then the district could save some money on expenses related to that. Also, it is very clear from the posts what is going on here and that will soon come to light with the public records act requests. Your voice is as big as this blog and so your effect. Your belief that you control the district with two board members shows what PUSD is becoming.
Maybe also getting into fights outside of elementary schools should be avoided and people can take comments more seriously. PUSD has its national reputation because of the administration, staff, and superintendent. This was prior to beatty and sellers joining the board. Question, have you ever heard beatty and sellers ever talk about PUSD students. Its amazing because i thought they were elected for a school board not for a which hunt to get rid of collins.
Good luck on the recall. 10 votes down over 10,000 more to go.
Mrs. Garnier, I think the problem that you are running into is that the community is waking up and putting their thinking caps on. The community is paying attention and getting involved. The community is educating themselves more than ever before. The problem is that the community at large does not agree with you and it is becoming more and more clear that you and your family represent just a small part of the community. You are waking the silent majority up but you are finding they don’t agree with you.
I might be wrong but when the signature gathering for your recall effort starts it will be very telling.
Trustee Patapow has developed from a sharp, quick witted intellectual to a follower of the “Pied Piper” and a “Wolf in Sheep Clothing”; Mr. Collins. There was a time in our community where Mr. Patapow’s knowledge and expertise were vital and crucial in guiding the trajectory of Poway Unified School District. Those days expired from his life years before his inability to stay awake during Board of Education meetings. Trustee Patapow’s loyalty to Mr. Collins is so blind that he has lost his fervor and the community’s faith as an elected official responsible for the welfare of ALL children within our school district. Senator Strom Thurmond, from the great state of South Carolina, remained in public office far past his expiration date and publicly suffered embarrassment due to his inability to make responsible choices for the people he represented; his constituents. Mr. Patapow and his inability to make ethical, responsible decisions for the betterment of Poway Unified School District, without guidance, assistance and pressure from Mr. Collins, is obvious. Mr. Patapow should view his inability to formulate an independent thought with the greatest embarrassment. Your service to our community is appreciated, however, it’s time to retire Trustee Patapow. Do it graciously or be assured that during the recall, you and your legacy will be as tarnished and embarrassing as Mr. Collins’.
Very Respectfully,
Chris Garnier
Collin Robertson, Trustee Beatty and Trustee Sellers sincerely care about our students first and foremost. Summer last year, when numerous groups of parents complained to the then board about problems in the district’s aggressive implementation of iPad programs without thorough consideration of our students’ long-term well-beings, Ms. Beatty was the ONLY trustee in the entire old board who actually listened to the concerns of the parents. Without her tenacious effort and the support of the new board, there would no be ETAC or other board advisory committees.
RBresident, the recall is up to the community to decide. It doesn’t matter whether a board member agrees, disagrees, or chooses to stay neutral on the matter. In the mean time, let the board focus on what they are elected to do: direct the school district on behalf of the community. What is the point to distract the board on something beyond their jurisdiction?
Chris and Kim Garnier,
How can you be taken seriously when you’re suing PUSD and you give an interview with a man who wants to teach you how to boycott and ultimately destroy this community?
…and there you go again, playing the race card, using Strom Thurmond as an example. Why not use Ruth Bader Ginsburg as an example considering she fell asleep at the SOTU address? Perhaps her liberal views cause you to think more highly of her than Strom Thurmond?
One thing I’ve learned reading all these posts: your opinion of Dr. Collins is not widely shared. Another thing I’ve learned is how to keep you silent: ask you questions you’re afraid to answer.
Very Respectfully,
Mr. Wonderful
Jessica, so you are saying because Ms. Beatty tried to stop the implementation of iPads she cares about the students. First, how does that show Sellers cares about the students. Second, how long ago was that and is there anything else she or Sellers have ever done for the good of the students.
Additionally, transparency should be clear with our school board. It is not okay that Beatty and Sellers are doing school business through private emails in order to attempt to make sure the emails cant be requested by CPRA. The fact that emails have been produced between Wilson CC’ing Beatty and Sellers, on Beatty’s private email and accidentaly on Seller’s district e-mail proves that they are using private email for District business. Is this recall worthy? Is this illegal?
An outsider looking in on this discussion would think we were talking about a failing school district where students can’t read, teachers are fleeing and parents are clamoring to send their children to other school districts. However, we know that Poway Unified is one of the best in the state and is the main reason most parents moved into the neighborhood they chose to call home. We also know that John Collins (as Assistant Superintendent and now as Superintendent), Andy Patapow and the other long-serving School Board Members recently voted out of office deserve a great deal of the credit for the District’s success.
It is a shame that a personal vendetta has got us to this point and it is even more shameful that there is no respect being shown for literally a lifetime of service. Even if it is true that Andy Patapow’s best days are behind him, he deserves the opportunity to retire on his own terms or choose to face the voters again next year. This recall and the recent turnover of the Board can do nothing but tarnish the image of an exceptional school district.
Collin Robertson, I learned more recently about what Beatty did long before she was elected as the trustee. She was very involved in PTA at various roles. She was one of the parents who went all the way to Sacramento to advocate for more funding for education. Please do not discredit the hard work of Ms. Beatty simply because she may have different opinions from you. I surely do not agree with every decision she has made, but there is no denial that she cares deeply about ALL of our students, first and foremost.
Sellers is relatively new. I had the pleasure attending one of the board candidate forums last October. Sellers stood out of the eight candidates as being frank, straightforward and no nonsense. He says what he mean and he means what he says. Again, I do not agree with each and every decision he made, but I respect his honesty.
I like Ms. Beatty and almost all members of the new board, even though they are not perfect. But who is perfect? When you look at the compensation a board member receives, comparing to the amount of work they put in, it is tremendous amount of voluntary community service.
I don’t believe in any rumors or hearsays unless there is solid evidence. Please appreciate and respect our elected trustees. They represent the community.
Peace.
Jessica, I ask you to read this.
http://boardofeducationpoway.blogspot.com/2015/10/keith-wilson-and-fixation-with-sexual.html?m=1
As Ms. Garnier states, it does read as the National Inquirer…you simply can not believe one man could behave in such a way.
Mr. Wilson, if you are out there, can you please tell us if you were the one who filled out the second speaker slip, and then later sent an email reprimanding Mr. Patapow for reading it out loud?
Sommer, I have no time or interest in reading rumors. Thank you.
Unfortunately, Jessica, that blog is based completely on facts…although I don’t expect you to take my word for it. Please, ask Mr. Wilson himself.
P Martin,
Your comment is not approved. If you haven’t read our rules about unsubstantiated allegations and libel found in the comments above, please do. If you have read them and still don’t understand why your comment is not allowed, you may want to try a more credible site like infowars.
Good Morning citizens of Hades, it’s 31 degrees. Brady and HQ agree for the 12th time this year
Dear PUSD Parents, Faculty and Friends,
If you receive an unsolicited Friend Request via Facebook from either Kim or Chris Garnier, please DENY the request. This couple is using Social Media to gain support for their recall attempt of trustee Andy Patapow (whether they know you or not). Do not engage with this couple as anything said to them (nice or otherwise) is automatically forwarded to their attorney.
PUSD is a nationally recognized school district. Do not let this couple ruin what so many have worked so hard to uphold.
Very Respectfully,
Mr. Wonderful
The ignorant and the ones unable to think for themselves supported Adolf Hitler because he fed their ego and promised them what they wanted and needed to hear. There is no difference with the actions of John Collins, Candy Smiley and Andy Patapow. However, their promises to give the people what they want to hear, is at a much smaller scale. Collins, Smiley and Patapow have nowhere near the gusto or charisma, owned and exhibited by Hitler. Yet these 3, Collins, Smiley and Patapow convince the teachers of PUSD that they deserve special treatment simply because they are teachers of PUSD. Are teachers in other school districts somehow less worthy? Collins, Smiley and Patapow “promise the world” to our teachers and our community but have done nothing but leave our grandchildren with a bill that will be more than a burden to bare decades after those three have been buried in the Earth.
Back to Hitler and the easily influenced minds of our community; the Weimar Republic had no idea how to solve the problems of the Depression. The Nazis on the other hand promised to solve the financial woes destroying the world’s economy. Hitler, like Collins, Smiley and Patapow, promised the masses what they wanted. Collins promised the teachers a raise. He got Smiley and Patapow to mindlessly follow along. Collins promised to solve our financial woes with the CAB. The only two standing from that disastrous decision are Trustee Patapow and Mr. Collins. Hitler used the Jews and other sections of society as scapegoats, blaming all the problems on them as Collins, Patapow, Smiley and the district attempt to blame their terrible choices on my family and me. To Germans at the time, Hitler made sense as I’m positive, Collins, Smiley, Patapow and the district make sense to many, especially those who are employed by the district. Like Collins, Hitler united people by providing explanations for Germany’s problems and the fools followed no matter how ridiculous the explanation.
As many within Poway Unified School District, those in Germany at the time were tired of their quality of life. One does NOT go into the teaching arena to become wealthy. If you are a teacher and you are complaining about your quality of life within PUSD you have been led into the trap orchestrated by Mr. Collins, former Board of Education members, former PUSD Superintendent’s and your own self-aggrandizement. If Mr. Collins is in the education business for the “kids” why is he taking nearly $500,000 a year from our community while continuing to lie and mislead us? Hitler promised to make Germany proud again – it was exactly what people wanted to hear. Mr. Collins promises to bring our school district into the technology age, yet the Moore Report shines like a fog lamp from a light house delivering harsh warnings and facts that dangerous waters are brewing and there is no relief in sight for our failures within the technology realm within PUSD unless a massive change of course is immediately implemented; yet Smiley and Patapow lack the mental capacity and moral courage to stand up to Mr. Collins and admonish him for his greedy, unscrupulous and deceitful decisions.
I urge against teachers and district employees to continue to follow the rhetoric from Mr. Collins, the PFT and your Union Representatives. Lack of knowledge and blind faith are the same causes that led to the death of 6 million Jews at the hands on Adolf Hitler.
Thank God for the agitators and the ones able to think for themselves. Thank God for the brave who refused to continue to succumb to the madness of Hitler. Evil was revealed and greater pride was returned to the Jewish people. Germany has become a flourishing, lucrative, kind nation and the same will happen for Poway Unified School District with the recall of Trustee Patapow and the permanent removal of both Candy Smiley and John Collins.
Mr. Garnier,
You compare the leaders of PUSD to Adolf Hitler yet you want to stay here?
You call the leaders of PUSD racist yet you want to stay here?
How many drinks have you consumed to regurgitate these statements?
Shouldn’t you be somewhere 100+ yards away from Painted Rock waiting for your kids to be dismissed?
Very Respectfully,
Mr. Wonderful
We’re letting the comment stand, for the following reasons:
-It speaks for itself.
-Mr. Garnier uses his own name — and he can then take ownership and responsibility for his opinion and his choice of wording.
-It’s clearly a comparison. It doesn’t appear that Garnier is actually calling anyone Hitler.
-Even if any readers think Garnier is calling somone Hitler, no reasonable person actually believes they are Hitler.
-If readers think the comment is uncalled for or inappropriate, it does still speak for itself.
Carry on.
Mr. Garnier, please stop friend requesting people you don’t know. I don’t want to be your friend. In the spirit of Halloween, you’re bat-sh*t crazy and I find your diatribe hard to read. It’s like a written train wreck. I can’t look away. It’s getting old. If you don’t like PUSD then go elsewhere. Your poor kids aren’t benefitting at all from this commotion you are creating and I’m sure your home life is less than lovely to be in. Bad energy. Bad ju-ju. Whatever you want to call it, keep it off social media please.
And Mr. Wonderful…thanks for the real. Laugh. Out. Loud. moment of my day.
“It’s clearly a comparison. It doesn’t appear that Garnier is actually calling anyone Hitler.”
That’s not quite true, TA. Mr. Garnier said this:
“Hitler used the Jews and other sections of society as scapegoats, blaming all the problems on them as Collins, Patapow, Smiley and the district attempt to blame their terrible choices on my family and me”
In his “comparison”, he says Hitler is to the Jews what Collins, Patapow, and Smiley are to him and his family. It’s more than a comparison, it’s a direct accusation naming specific people.
Leave the comment up though. It’s going to be used when he or one of his family members runs for Patapow’s seat next November.
Now lets see if Sellers and Beatty keep supporting Garnier and his anti-semitic comments.
@Brian, we’ll buy that. Both ends of it.
I find it unfortunate that so many people, with such strong opinions, fear to use their real names (or full names) in expressing those opinions. In countless venues, the ability to post under pseudonyms invariably results in a loss of civility and the deterioration of the quality of discourse.
“The ignorant and the ones unable to think for themselves supported Adolf Hitler because he fed their ego and promised them what they wanted and needed to hear. There is no difference with the actions of John Collins, Candy Smiley and Andy Patapow.”
I find it disheartening in today’s dialog we have an individual who believes it appropriate to make the above statement. The good from this, is the person writing the above, instantly loses credibility and draws anger from most readers. The diatribe ends with a paragraph that can only be described as “DELUSIONAL” . The view into this person’s mind leaves little doubt of his instability and lack of reality based thought.
He dismisses a blog as “on par with the National Enquirer” yet fails to address any of the questions posed to him about his and his father-in-law’s actions. Deflecting as a means to avoid having to lie or admit fault seems all he can do. He is stuck in the corner and cannot answer without being shown to be as he is perceived by so many.
It is a sad commentary, such energy is being used for ill, rather than good. If but a fraction of the hate were channeled into helping make the education of children the priority, our children and the community would again flourish and grow.
I would challenge Garnier or Wilson to dispute the information in the blog above, related to the speaker slips submitted at the October 19, 2015, PUSD School Board Meeting.
Mr. McMillan,
I am a busy man. I’m raising 3 children under the age of 10. I also own a business and I am pursuing my doctoral degree from USC. I don’t have time to waste on blogs from people I don’t know and those who attempt to verbally assassinate my amazing family. I don’t know who Ms. Sommer Recame is nor would I ever waste my valuable time reading her blog filled with anonymous names and ridiculous rhetoric. However, Mr. McMillan, I love challenges and I love when individuals have the courage to stand by the words that come from their mouths. Sir, I appreciate your challenge and I appreciate you “putting your name on it,” as NFL Coach Herman Edwards always says. Now that I have read the ridiculous blog produced by Ms. Sommer Recame filled with anonymous quotes, I can unequivocally “dispute the information in the blog” as related to me. Aren’t you a retired police officer Mr. McMillan? It should be easy for you to call a forensic hand writing analyst and use a favor to discover the true culprit. You let me know the time, date and location sir, and I will produce a complete writing sample for your displeasure. I will not speak for my father in law but I can only imagine he would make the same offer. Your ridiculous allegations coupled with Ms. Recame’s slanderous blog, add to your foolishness and reason as to why you no longer serve on the PUSD Board of Education. I look forward to meeting with you soon and I hope that you have the most relaxing and enjoyable Halloween weekend.
Very Respectfully,
Chris Garnier
Mr. Garnier, for the record, I am not the author of the blog, however I would love to know if there are any facts presented that you dispute. And just to be clear, it is not your handwriting that is in question, but rather your father-in-law’s
Mr. Garnier’s analogy between Hitler and PUSD officials is a perfect example of how deeply disturbed this man is. Thank you Mr. Garnier, for continuing to show your true colors. (And before you fly off the deep end, that was not a racist statement.)
I second Mr. McMillan’s request for Mr. Garnier and Mr. Wilson to produce proof that Mr. Wilson was not the author of the speaker card with the name, “Jack Mehoff” at the PUSD October meeting. If not, why were the Garnier and Wilson families giggling like five year old children as soon as Mr. Patapow read the name? And why would Keith Wilson send such a grotesque email the next day to the media and board members if he were not the writer? If you haven’t read it yet, check it out here:
http://boardofeducationpoway.blogspot.com/2015/10/keith-wilson-and-fixation-with-sexual.html?m=1
Then go to the PUSD website and watch the videos of Keith Wilson, Chris Garnier, and Kim Garnier at board meetings dating back a year when they first started bullying everyone at PUSD.
Is it any wonder that there is now a security guard at the district office and at all the board meetings? Is it any wonder that people feel the need to post anonymously on this and other blogs about Wilson and Garnier? Sadly, everyone knows they’ll become the next target if they dare challenge anything these people say or do. And as others have mentioned, beware if you have a Facebook page that Kim or Chris Garnier can access. Even if they don’t know you, they’ll stalk you and send requests to all your friends. Including your grandparents. Who live in another state.
Chris Garnier constantly cries poor victim when anyone brings up the restraining order PUSD has against him and says that everyone involved is a racist. He claims the school, the district, the lawyer, and the judge all got it wrong. So wrong that they upgraded his temporary restraining order to a permanent one, banning him for a minimum of three years from a school site where his children attend (this is public record…anyone can look this up). This is practically unheard of – no judge would ever enforce such an order unless there was extremely sound reason. Go away Chris Garnier. Take your wife with you and your father-in-law. You’ve become the laughingstocks of this district. With any luck, your BFFs Kimberley Beatty and Charles Sellers will join you.
For the record, Chris is allowed at our children’s school. We enjoyed the Halloween parade and class parties today. All the kids at the school looked great, as did their teachers, and we had a wonderful morning. The rhetoric of Chris being a threat and there being a need for security is played out. It’s astonishing to me how a few people are willing to state whatever they choose, simply out of anger, about a family who is calling attention to real problems in this district.
Mr. or Mrs. Martin, (since you lack courage and continue to post anonymously),
Your facts are extremely inaccurate. I suggest you do proper research prior to posting lies and deceit. The Principal at Painted Rock, the school where my children attend, is no longer the principal. She was let go from her job as Principal of Painted Rock one month into this school year, with her service to the school equating to roughly 1 year of service. Poway Unified School District moved her to Abraxas for a “leadership opportunity”. I wish her great luck and success at Poway Unified’s only continuation school designed for students who have found trouble at “regular” high schools within the district. Poway Unified School District also hired Ms. Janet Bernard whom I have known for over 25 years. Though Ms. Bernard is a black woman, I believe her expertise is far superior to the former racist principal who was only able to to maintain her job as a new principal for barely a year. I’m back at Painted Rock with my children everyday. With the drastic change, a great illustration is exhibited that Poway Unified got it wrong. The article about the old principal at Painted Rock losing her job is included. Mr. or Ms. Martin, I hope that you enjoy the article and that you and your family have a relaxing and enjoyable Halloween weekend.
http://m.pomeradonews.com/news/2015/oct/02/painted-rock-principal-new-job/
Very Respectfully,
Chris Garnier
Anyone who posts here that Mr. Garnier is not allowed at the school will need to PROVE it.
I attempted to post this on the National Inquirer (aka the Poway blog). The creator of the salacious “Sexual Innuendo Blog” refused to post my opposing opinion.
Mr. McMillan,
Did YOU write that speaker slip? I find it odd that out of all the serious issues going on within PUSD, your focus is on a speaker slip. Why were you so interested in the conversation my family was having that night? Did you listen to every word we said or just immediately preceding Trustee Patapow’s unfortunate blunder? Why would you listen so intently to us right before he read it? Did you know what was coming? Or did you fabricate what you believe you “overheard”?
Again, with all the serious issues, you find the time to focus on my family and a speaker slip. Is that your best argument for keeping Patapow and Collins?
Please, “Nancy Drew”, let me know what your handwriting analyst friend comes up with in regards to the Speaker Slip Mystery. I’m intrigued. Please be sure to submit your own handwriting as a comparison as well. May I also suggest you request a handwriting sample from Mr. Marc Davis? Upon review of the video, it’s clear Mr. Davis was greatly amused by Trustee Patapow’s offensive remark.
Have a good day Boss Hog.
Kim Garnier
Commenters:
We’re quite frankly tired of having to monitor this discussion for name-calling, personal attacks and every little salacious tidbit that may or may not be substantiated.
Some may view this arena as their personal plaything. But, it takes work to monitor it and at least try to keep it somewhat above board. That effort is exceedingly difficult, especially with those who know it’s easier to be anonymous with comments they would never make using a real name.
We give less leeway to anonymous commenters. Those willing to use real names also take some ownership for their opinions — that means more leeway.
It’s been made pretty clear by Mr. Garnier that he won’t be answering questions from anonymous commenters.
But, more importantly — repeat, open-ended questions with a personal agenda behind them posted by anonymous commenters; they’re also quite tiresome.
If you’ve asked already and the answer has been refused because you’re anonymous, take a hint. Use a real name or get someone with a real name to pose the questions.
Thanks for your consideration.
Carry on.
“It’s been made pretty clear by Mr. Garnier that he won’t be answering questions from anonymous commenters. ”
I would respectfully ask him, again, if he, his wife, and father-in-law would rule out running for PUSD Trustee in the next 15 months. I’m not anonymous and I think his answer would certainly help his cause.
Let me start by outing myself as the author of the blog; “Board of Education in Poway”.
Garnier, so there is no confusion on your part, I stand by my assertion your father-in-law is the author of the speaker slip in question.
To your wife, who posted above that I refused to post her comments; they were posted at 7:11 AM on the 30th, almost 4 1/2 hours before the above statement alleging I refused to post her comment. I don’t sit by my computer and wait for people to post. I check off and on during the day and post comments as I see them.
In response to the post above I responded:
Why focus on a speaker slip with all the serious issues going on in PUSD? I am simply highlighting an event, that clearly appears orchestrated by your father. The purpose for which in my opinion is to continue to draw attention away from kids and education and continue an assault upon good people to further a personal vendetta. Your family’s personal, contrived and vitriol issues are of your own creation.
Your words and actions speak volumes. Your repeated smarmy attempts to draw others into your fight, only to threaten and demean when those attempts are met with negative or no result, is legendary. Your father’s obsessive, vitriolic, fixation with sexual innuendo, is simply pathetic.
Deflecting the focus away from your family will not work, nor will your oft used threats give me cause to not shed light on the reality of you and your family’s pathetic vendetta, caused by your husbands own words and actions.
Boss Hog? Did you mean Boss Hogg? Either way, name calling is simply childish and in keeping with what has become expected from you and your family.
The sad part of all of this, is the fact that energy, focus and money is being diverted away from Kids and their education. This vendetta or re-call, is simply a game for a family who does not believe rules were made for them. The diversion away from kids and education is being driven by the Garnier’s and Wilson and a small cadre of disgruntled individuals. I hope people pay attention and reject the re-call and send a message that this type of action is an unnecessary distraction.
We received an email saying that the moderator’s “duty” is to monitor the blog only and keep our opinions to ourselves.
We’re very glad now to be informed of the rules for OUR blog.
We provide quite a bit of latitude and seldom refuse comments. The fact that we’ve done so on this thread moreso than others speaks to the passion of those involved in this issue. We’ll continue to use our best judgement to do as we see fit.
In short, our “duty” is to tell you we can do whatever it is we damn well please. We are free to do so.
You are free to choose to read. Or not. Or go elsewhere.
Carry on.
I fear a “Recall Thor’s Assistant” movement coming.
I’m termed out next year. Why recall me? I’ll be moving back to Kenya then.
Mr. Brady,
I thank you for your moral courage and for “putting your name on your question”. Currently my concentration is on building my business, completing my education and continuing to be a loving husband and father.
The citizens of the Poway Unified School District need to elect an individual with the moral character to stand for righteousness, humanity, and tolerance. I have no doubt fulfilling that role would not be a challenge for me.
At this juncture, politics in this community are for cowards like Mr. TJ Zane. Politics in this community belong to unscrupulous men like Andy Patapow. Politics in this community coincide with the lack of emotional intelligence like Ms. Michelle O’Connor-Ratcliffe.
Mr. Brady, this community is not looking for a leader, they are looking for someone to control. I’m a scary man, Mr. Brady, because I’m ONLY controlled by my beliefs of righteousness and those beliefs place a mirror in front of those who fall short.
Mr. Brady, I can not speak for my family, but I will not be seeking a position on the PUSD Board of Education. The thought of working with men and women like Zane, Patapow and O’Connor-Ratcliffe who blindly follow Mr. Collins despite full knowledge of the Superintendent’s deceit, seems like a colossal waste of my time. I am a man of action and I could not ignore the district’s problems the way these three board members do. Our children deserve much more than pancake flipping civil servants. Our children deserve board members who take a stand and take their duties to serve the public seriously.
Marine Corps Officers live by a code and honesty is the spearhead of that code. John Collins is the subordinate of the Board. The Board’s subordinate has been caught in numerous lies, half-truths, deceit, dishonesty, etc. A subordinate has grossly misrepresented the truth in numerous capacities, and the subordinate goes unpunished?
Mr. Brady, I have no other choice but to believe that great corruption is layered deeply within the Poway Unified School District community, thus the fear and resistance to fire John Collins despite his massive, public blunders. Sir, if I ever go into politics, my Marine Corps ethos of honor, courage and commitment with the faith that I have been internally blessed with, will guide me.
At this time Mr. Brady, I have no plans on running for the Poway Unified School District Board of Education and I thank you for asking the question sir.
Very Respectfully,
Chris Garnier
Brian Brady,
Do you plan to run for the Poway Unified School District Board of Education? Are you a Democrat or a Republican?
“Do you plan to run for the Poway Unified School District Board of Education?”
No ma’am. I can’t think of a worse job to have than a School Board Trustee. I am intrigued though by the personalities of people who do seek such positions.
Mr Garnier,
Thank you for the response. It speaks to the motivation of your recall effort.
Why is it the worst job to be a School Board Trustee? It is pretty good position normally.
I do agree that it is hard to find a worse job than to be a PUSD Trustee AT THIS TIME. It is a catch-22: If you do follow the direction of the Superintendent, you most likely will be ousted by the voters during the election. If you do not follow the direction of the Superintendent, well, you get boos during the board meetings for not following the advice of the experts. 😉
“It is a pretty good position normally.”
Really? Which part? The long hours you work, the lack of pay you get or the lack of respect you receive?
So,
Can anyone shed light on the current status of the so called “Re-Call” of Trustee, Andy Patapow? After the two false starts, the third submission a charm, what is the current status?
While I always hate to poke an angry bee hive, I am reminded of an old saying; “To carry a grudge is like being stung to death by only one bee”. Keith Wilson is carrying this grudge and I just poked the hive.
HQ nails it but it goes even deeper. City councils have emotional drama (property issues, zoning ) but boy oh boy, kids are a lightning rod. I was a trustee for a small, private school and it was rough.
A large, well-performing public school district with a screwed up financing deal? No thanks. Everyone has an opinion and nobody is directly paying the bills. The taxpayers without kids don’t want to pay anything and the taxpayers with kids want everything. That’s a no-win situation.
God bless those that do, though.
Mr. McMillan,
The answer to your recall question in regards to Puppet Patapow, is easy. Trustee Patapow and the other 2 incompetent Board Members need to exhibit moral fiber, make a sound financially and ethical decision and fire John Collins immediately.
John Collins will be remembered as the most disgraced Superintendent in the history of Poway Unified School District. His legacy will be more of an embarrassment than the disgusting acts of Dr. Reeves.
If Trustee Patatpow wants the “dogs” called off of him and allow him to retire with dignity, he will make the right decision. If Trustee Patapow fails to stay awake in Board meetings and if he continues to beg John Collins for a perceived independent thought, it will be my pleasure to walk door to door, design recall signs and incorporate the efforts of a trained Marine Corps Officer; the refusal of relenting until victory is inevitable.
My group will attain the needed 10,000 signatures and I will be proud to know that my amazing father-in-law guided me to the political demise of a known Collins’ supporter. I will be proud to know that our group was responsible for removing those who have financially and morally crippled Poway Unified School District for decades to come.
If John Collins is not removed, Trustee Patapow and the Superintendent will be reduced to the educational embarrassment of the city of San Diego and I will utilize all resources to be certain that they both Collins and Patapow are memorialized as the educational embarrassment to our Great Nation.
I hope that I have answered your question sufficiently Mr. McMillan.
Very Respectfully,
Chris Garnier
Hypocrisy,
I do highly respect PUSD trustees for the tremendous amount of work they put in, especially the four younger ones. They do seem to review in advance the mountain of documents prior to the board meeting, as well as listen to their constituents on numerous issues from time to time. Whether I agree or disagree with their decisions, I appreciate their services to the community.
I don’t understand why some people feel they are entitled to smear or belittle the board simply because they may have different opinions.
Brian Brady,
“God bless those that do, though.” Totally agree.
Jessica,
I wish your attitude was the rule, rather than the exception. Unfortunately, the majority would never be willing to step up and allow their lives to be put under a microscope simply for the opportunity to make the world a little better. Most actually think they are doing their part by bringing others down. Kind of pathetic actually.
If you really want to be depressed, ask anyone to name five San Diego school board members that they admire. There are more than 200 in San Diego County so it shouldn’t be that tough a question.
“Unfortunately, the majority would never be willing to step up and allow their lives to be put under a microscope.”
HQ, the teachers’ unions are horrible about this. They personally attack candidates who question budgets and unchecked power.
“the teachers’ unions are horrible about this. They personally attack candidates who question budgets and unchecked power.”
You will get no argument from me.
Unfortunately, they are not the only ones. Do you remember when recalls were reserved (and used very rarely) for elected officials who committed actual crimes or blatant corruption? Now, it seems like every vote makes an official subject to recall by someone who simply has a different opinion on the subject.
Brian Brady, do you have any examples of the poway teachers personally attacking board members? Last year I read the editorials by Beatty and the poway teachers union. I would have to say that Wilson, Garnier and even Beatty have been the ones lauching the personal attacks.
So,
Having read the reply from Garnier to my question related to the status of the re-call, I am no clearer now than when I asked the question.
This string began as a result of the re-call effort and its struggles. As usual, Garnier regales us with his I’m “a trained Marine Corps Officer; the refusal of relenting until victory is inevitable” nonsense and fails to answer the question.
As of today, it is my understanding there are no petitions to be circulated. Having no petitions that have made their way through the approval process, indicates the effort is either in a holding pattern or dead again.
“My group will attain the needed 10,000 signatures and I will be proud to know that my amazing father-in-law guided me to the political demise of a known Collins’ supporter.”
The horse is first Garnier. You, your father in law and the others in “your” group can all occupy the cart, but it goes no where until the rules are followed and the Registrar gives approval of the petitions.
Seeing none, the motion fails. Next item on the agenda; Garnier?
All the Garniers and Wilsons are doing here is wasting District time and money. If you want to see pure example of this, view court records in their litigation. They have absolutely done nothing. They claim they are appealing the permanent restraining order but they havent even filed an opening brief. Their lawyer is so clueless that she has now requested her fourth extension from the court to do a simple opening brief. This is the Garnier legal team at work.
rbresident1,
I certainly don’t need to speak for Brian (nor would he want me to), but I think you will find that he was referring to teachers’ unions in general, not specifically the Poway Teachers Union.
“Brian Brady, do you have any examples of the poway (sic) teachers personally attacking board members?”
Teachers generally don’t attack Trustees or Trustee candidates but their unions do. I can’t recall of one specific to the Poway Federation of Teachers but I can show you a bunch of examples, of labor unions attacking candidates, in the Solana Beach & Encinitas Elementary District races and the San Dieguito High School race.
I was personally smeared by teachers’ unions reps, in 2012, for my public opposition to the AA, CC, EE propositions.
I was careful, in my comment, to not specify the PFT because I know of no misdeeds there….
BUT…since you asked, I went a hunting:
I can see why teachers defend the Supt; his financial interests are aligned with the teachers:
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/education/poway-schools-execs-get-the-same-raises-they-negotiate-with-teachers/
I guess President Beatty got quite a beat down from many teachers when they sought to place the negotiations in the trustees’ hands:
http://www.pomeradonews.com/news/2015/apr/21/poway-unified-teachers-pack-school-board-meeting/
I think Mr. Garnier is tilting at windmills with this recall but that doesn’t make his motivation wrong. I’ve been on the receiving end of teachers’ wrath and the character assassinations were plentiful.
Frankly, I think the teachers who get involved in union activities set a horrible example for their students. I’m sure that statement will get a dozen or so swipes at me, from anonymous commenters now.
Re: A couple of comments received but not approved:
The name calling and allegations on both sides are getting out of hand. We can’t keep up with it anymore. Try your comments without referring to others as “ignorant” or “racist” or whatever else — you’ll have a great chance of seeing your comments posted. Otherwise, we’ll simply trash them, no explanation provided.
Thanks.
Mr. McMillan,
I’m truly not sure how you became a police officer but I do know why you are no longer a member of the BOE. Do your own research sir. You were a cop. Figure our how to attain information without it being spoon fed to you.
We just completed another step in our process to recall Patapow. The last item to complete is the ROV approval of our recall petition.
Mr. McMillan, sir, you act like a tough guy but the truth is obvious. You and your Superintendent and friend John Collins are getting demoralized by a young, black man and your passive, covert need to maintain status quo is being exposed with every word you utter.
Times are changing Mr. McMillan and you don’t have the strength nor mental ability to stop our progression. Welcome to the world of tolerance, acceptance and humanity Mr. McMillan.
Very Respectfully ,
Chris Garnier
“I’m sure that statement will get a dozen or so swipes at me, from anonymous commenters now.”
To wit
“Try your comments without referring to others as “ignorant” or “racist” or whatever else.”
Y’all never disappoint.
We can confirm the information from Mr. Garnier above, as provided by the Registrar of Voters…
The third Notice of Intent of a Recall has been submitted and was verified. The recall proponents have submitted the actual petition, which is now being reviewed by the Registrar for compliance (font size, size of signature boxes, required wording, etc — nuts and bolts stuff).
Mr. Brady,
I want to thank you for maintaining valid points throughout this “debate” despite obvious chaos enhanced by passion from my words.
I wanted to address something you said.
You said…
“Frankly, I think the teachers who get involved in union activities set a horrible example for their students.”
I agree with that statement wholeheartedly but I’m curious as to why our opinions coincide.
While in the Marine Corps, we were taught that we were servants of the American community. As a servant, one is “beneath” another. I relished the idea of serving the public. My paychecks were given to me by the American people and every two weeks my gratitude to serve them grew exponentially.
Servitude for one’s country is no different for public school teachers. Every two weeks, or every payday, the feeling of gratitude should be the natural inclination. I can’t think of a greater life or calling; the ability to serve the American public, and the public’s gratitude so greatly expressed, that acknowledgement is rewarded to the server through the tax-payer. That’s a public school teacher and it’s how I felt everyday as a Marine.
All that being said, teachers who get involved in union activities illustrate to their students that money is more important than a child’s education. There are union leaders that negotiate on behalf of teachers. Allow them to legally negotiate while teachers focus on the noble task of serving the people. It is an amazing honor to be publicly compensated for your servitude. A public school teacher’s example to the children they teach should be humanity, tolerance and acceptance followed by gratitude that a teacher gets to publicly serve that child and be compensated off the hard work of the tax-payer.
I would love your thoughts Mr. Brady and I hope you have a splendid day sir.
Very Respectfully,
Chris Garnier
That is one perspective Mr. Garnier. So how do feel about the othet 2 unions in the district? PSEA, the union that Charles Seller’s wife works in just got a 3% raise and big gains in health care to the tune over over $4 million. Does that make them bad employees?
I think you’re right, Mr Garnier. People lose trust in public institutions when they feel those institutions aren’t serving their best interests first.
For example, big business, public sector unions, and Congress are not admired while small business and the military are. Why? At this point, people think those institutions serve their interests before their own. Retired LtCol Leonard Wong wrote a great article about this during the sequester when he warned General Officers not to appear to be “money grubbers” (his words, not mine)..
When teachers involve themselves in union politics, to get more money and limit school choice, people think they are not serving the public interest. Teachers, ganging up on Trustees for wanting greater involvement in contract negotiations, look like they are betraying the public trust.
I think teachers should be paid well but this whole collective bargaining, for professionals with advanced degrees is just immoral.
I think you’re cause is misguided Mr Garnier but I understand your frustration. I hope you’ll focus on getting the right trustees elected in November rather than appearing to beat up on a nice (but misguided) man with six months on his term
Brian Brady,
“Teachers, ganging up on Trustees for wanting greater involvement in contract negotiations, look like they are betraying the public trust.”
Precisely and sad.
As a teacher, I believe that I should be compensated in a fashion that would allow me the opportunity to raise my own children in the community that I teach in. As cost-of-living increases, my number of responsibilities grows, my pay stagnates. This is not fair or right.
Perhaps it is a personal choice for me and my family, but most weeks I spend 60 hours serving your children while being away from my own. Pay is the carrot, the hope that one day we can save enough so that our children can live in the community we serve. I do not believe that a pay raise when the monies are available is too much to ask.
“As a teacher, I believe that I should be compensated in a fashion that would allow me the opportunity to raise my own children in the community that I teach in”
This is the challenge with public sector employees; they exist in a legalized monopoly. Thus, they think compensation should be dictated by desires rather than demand.
Which of these two teachers are more in demand?
Bill, who teaches at Corona Island Prep, a school with tremendous resources, nestled in a tony, beach community with mostly two-parent families who are heavily involved in the children’s education…OR….
Barbara, who teaches at Buchanan High School, an urban school with scattered resources, gang and drug problems, with children of mostly one-parent families, doing the best they can to put food on the table?
If we applied the laws of supply and demand, and looked at the applications to employment ratio, we’d see that for every one spot at Corona Island Prep, there were 2.8 applications while, at Buchanan High, there were 1.1 applications for every job. If (by chance), both schools were in the same district, and you were a trustee, where would you pay more money?
The answer is Buchanan (of course). You would raise pay at Buchanan, and lower pay at Corona Prep, until the ratios were closer to 1.5 apps for each position.
This doesn’t happen because public schools exist in a legal monopoly. Labor unions’ interests are in funding trustees’ who will divert as much money to teachers’ unions members. I didn’t say that, the NEA President did.
I think teachers are underpaid but no teacher is “entitled” to a standard of living which is commensurate with their geographical workplace, If teachers wanted to be paid what they are worth, they would support school choice– the really good teachers would make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.
Dagnastic,
” I do not believe that a pay raise when the monies are available is too much to ask. ”
I agree.
Unfortunately, in the case of PUSD, the monies are not there. The district has deficits year after year in the past five years. Just check the district’s official financial reports: http://www.powayusd.com/depts/bss/finance/ .
Mr. Brady,
As you know, I look at things aggressively and as a servant to our Great Nation. I personally take great pride that I was able to serve America as many teachers I know do too.
Tenure has reduced the salary of our greatest teachers yet it has evened the playing field for the terrible teachers who we all know should have been fired long ago but are protected by unions promising tenure.
If we rewarded our teachers for the job he or she did, the cost of living would not be an issue. If you are a good teacher, you will be compensated appropriately. If you are not a good teacher you will be weeded out and your compensation or need by the government will cease to exist.
Very Respectfully,
Chris Garnier
“I do not believe that a pay raise when the monies are available is not too much to ask.”
Why? That’s not your money; it’s the taxpayers.
“If we rewarded our teachers for the job he or she did, the cost of living would not be an issue.”
Agreed, again but who is this “we”? I can’t stress this enough– “We the taxpayers” see value in the collective virtue of an educated populace and we offer that in taxes. But what is the best way to expend that tax money, to reward performance?
Let the ultimate consumers of education (the parents) decide where those monies should be allocated. Have the teachers…dare I say it…”compete” against one another for the parents’ education allocation.
Markets work. Superstar teachers will be compensated VERY well.
Things move so fast here…
Brian,
I would argue markets work without moral regard. Parents could use their “allocation” to follow flawed pedagogical practices, the newest, coolest methods without a research base, or to continue racist practices.
To be free, we need to allow freedom. I get it. But if we followed all popular opinions would things change: Civil Rights, suffrage, etc? I may be underestimating people and you may be overestimating people, but what is the balance?
Would competition encourage good practice or would it encourage the practice of following what is popular rather than what is best? Could grades be considered by colleges? Would rigor be replaced with ease?
Garnier has a very “Polly Anna” view of teacher compensation. If a measure of teacher greatness is the success of their students, then one would have to assume the failure of a teacher, or a teacher presumed to be “terrible” would then be measured by the failure of their students to succeed.
Let us take then the example of Brady above. The number of teacher applications for Corona Prep vs Buchanan. If the students at Corona Prep excelled in all aspects of learning, it would be understandable teachers would flock to such an environment due to the prospects of better pay. Conversely, teachers would avoid Buchanan.
Now, before you scream and yell and rant and rave, there are great teachers in schools like Buchanan, who do awesome things with these children and have many, many success stories. BUT, on a whole, the level of successes and over all success of the teacher would not be shown to be “as successful” under any measure used.
Mr. Brady on the other hand takes a different approach by lowing the pay at Corona and raising the pay at Buchanan, presumably to “draw” great teachers to Buchanan. The assumption is teachers would flock to Buchanan for the money. But if student achievement does not rise, is it the teacher who pays? Is it their fault? Is it then believed these teachers are terrible?
Both analogies or ideas are fraught with problems and in real life fail. Gauging teacher success is a sticky wicket. Do you use standardized testing as the gauge? How is success compared and against what? In determining teacher compensation, do you then have different pay scales for each school site? How does teacher success play into the pay scale? Year to year, students and demographics in schools and school districts change. Does the pay decrease when student “achievement” falls off? Does it increase when it rises? If school choice is the answer, how is choice determined? What criteria is used and who decides? Lottery? Again, the solutions are not simple.
Teachers are not the villains here. Garnier’s rectitude as he attempts to portray himself as a person of greater character for his service to country and the comment: “My paychecks were given to me by the American people and every two weeks my gratitude to serve them grew exponentially,” is a joke. This altruistic view of himself and teacher compensation has no place in this conversation.
Most teachers have a passion for seeing their students succeed. Most parents have a passion for seeing their children succeed. Most people in the community have a passion for seeing their community children succeed. It takes a village. No one person can do it all. Supporting teachers is a big step in the success of students.
Written by Garnier:
“It is an amazing honor to be publicly compensated for your servitude. A public school teacher’s example to the children they teach should be humanity, tolerance and acceptance followed by gratitude that a teacher gets to publicly serve that child and be compensated off the hard work of the tax-payer.”
Statements such as this (above) are not supporting of teachers.
“Gauging teacher success is a sticky wicket.”
No, it’s really not. You really let parents decide where to send their kids to school and offer varying price points for those schools. Some choose to pay more while other would choose to “bank” the allotment
That’s how you gauge teacher success. Watch what happens to the layers of middle management if you try freedom instead of monopoly. I always hear teachers complain of the bureaucracy and this will shrink it.
Of course, a lot of assistant principals would have to teach again and become educators instead of administrators–that’s where the money would be
The better schools would pay teachers more and the worse schools would pay teachers less.
That is actually the moral thing to do.
“I may be underestimating people and you may be overestimating people, but what is the balance?”
Freedom. Seriously, freedom is the balance. I trust people to act in their own self-interest. The teachers’ unions do– it’s time to let the parents act in their best interest.
By the way, parents make choices like this all of the time. People who don’t value a Poway education buy cheaper homes elsewhere but my solution let’s poor kids attend Poway schools. People vote their values with their dollars
Are poor people too stupid, or just hold bad value systems (in your opinion)? I think they can actually make the best choices for their kids
Brian,
Wow! “Are poor people too stupid, or just hold bad value systems (in your opinion)? I think they can actually make the best choices for their kids” Is that what you took away from my post?
My guess is that well-to-do parents will price poor students out of a quality education if your system would be applied. Or the quality schools would be filled already. Quality teachers already spoken for by those with more.
Earlier you wrote about teacher compensation should follow a supply and demand model. My issue with this would be similar to applying this to a medical model. More people are sick (choose the disease) so companies increase the cost of medicine. This would insure that only the rich survive.
This is what scares me the most about your model.
It also seems that you may be ignoring most of my content to make inflammatory remarks. Strange. I am seriously considering your ideas. You don’t need to do this with mine, but I thought that was at the heart of educated discourse.
Mr. McMillan,
What I said and what I believe…
“It is an amazing honor to be publicly compensated for your servitude. A public school teacher’s example to the children they teach should be humanity, tolerance and acceptance followed by gratitude that a teacher gets to publicly serve that child and be compensated off the hard work of the tax-payer.”
Your response sir…
“Statements such as this (above) are not supporting of teachers.”
My words, thoughts and ideas are NOT to support the teachers but rather protect students and the community. The Superintendent and Board have acquired a crazy notion that there is an open “checkbook” for district endeavors, especially when it relates to personnel compensation. That open “checkbook” comes from the pockets of the tax-payers of this community and what has been illustrated by men and women like Andy Patapow, yourself, and others who have held PUSD Board of Education Trustee positions, is tax-payer money has not and is not allocated to the most deserving teachers or administrators.
Open competition spurs greatness in ANY endeavor. The “cream” rises to the top, however, in this age of “participation trophies” and the “me too” clause, they have become typical and expected. “Participation trophies” fool “little Johnny” into thinking he is of greater educational, athletic, etc. value than he or she actually is. The same idea applies for “Mr. Johnson”. Simply because “Mr. Johnson” receives a pay raise as a teacher, what does it matter? Who knows if “Mr. Johnson” actually deserves the pay raise considering all of his colleagues were compensated the exact percentage?
There is no reason to work harder, acquire greater education/knowledge, or distinguish one’s self as special or great, if the slackers riding the coattails of the performers, are compensated the same as the best of the best.
Mr. McMillan, I’m not anti-teacher as you would like to fool Candy Smiley and the PUSD Teacher’s Union to think. I believe in the free market in ALL aspects of life in our Great Nation to include the market of education. The determination of our greatest, most productive and effective teachers, who deserve and should demand the most lucrative compensation packages from hard working tax-payers is a challenge, but our current educational tenure system is broken. Our Great Nation’s greatest minds have no desire to teach and their lack of desire to educate robs children, our Nation’s future, from attaining their ultimate potential.
There is no easy solution Mr. McMillan, but sitting on the sidelines, fingers crossed, that status quo will create competition amongst educators, with the hope that our current system will attract the sharpest most gifted minds into the field of education, is naive. And frankly sir, I don’t want any teacher to educate my child who does not strive on a daily basis to be the best at his or her profession. The mindset of mediocrity or comfortableness in ANY profession, specifically the profession of education because of tenure or “me too” clauses, should not have a hand in the development of our Nation’s youth. Students, parents and tax-payers don’t want “participation trophies”. I stand corrected; the weak and those who lack talent or work ethic want “participation trophies”. Those who comprehend value and understand self-worth mock “me too” clauses and “participation trophies”. Great teachers, like all great professionals, carry bitterness towards those who display inadequacies or lack of intelligence or lack of work ethic as well as those who possess an entitled belief that tax-payers owe them for their services despite that teacher’s inadequacies.
Mr. McMillan, the answer and the solution is complicated but as I have said on multiple occasions, I love a good challenge.
Very Respectfully,
Chris Garnier
“It also seems that you may be ignoring most of my content to make inflammatory remarks”
Mea culpa. I come off as acerbic to anonymous commenters when I strive for brevity.
“Earlier you wrote about teacher compensation should follow a supply and demand model. My issue with this would be similar to applying this to a medical model. ”
This is an excellent critique because the medical model is an example of a closed, cronyist system. I seek to go farther. To wit:
“My guess is that well-to-do parents will price poor students out of a quality education if your system would be applied. Or the quality schools would be filled already. Quality teachers already spoken for by those with more.”
That will absolutely happen in a closed, cronyist market; I want to open that market up. Three things appeal to me:
1- the growth in the homeschooling movement (permitting parents to “bank” that allotment for future use, to California public colleges)
2- the growth in alternative, scalable educational delivery systems (like online homeschooling curricula)
3- An open, entrepreneurial market. I think we would see more charter schools, more parochial schools, and more low-cost, private schools open.
There’s a lot of money in K-12 education in California and it’s operating in a mostly-closed monopoly. Competition would be a CRAZY good solution. To do that though, we have to shed the “traditional”, labor union-run model and consider that parents will make choices, some VERY good choices and some VERY bad ones.
Here is what I do know–most California parents are pigeon-holed into VEry bad choices which cost taxpayers way too much money. I think new ideas are worth consideration and I’m grateful for the dialogue.
Brian,
Thank you for your response. I’m not a huge fan of homeschooling, but this isn’t from any knowledge of the system, but rather the practice of people I know intimately.
I will look into it. Thanks again for your response. I’m choosing to stay anonymous as long as I have concern with the path our school board is on. I’d rather be safe than unemployed.
Brian Brady;
Freedom. Choice. Value. Your ideological or illogical view of freedom, choice and value when discussing “Public Education” is the argument used when arguing for “Choice” rather than inclusion within a specific area or district. Do you advocate allowing a parent to take their ADA money and directing it to the school of THEIR choice? Public or Private? What happens when THEIR school of choice is already filled by students who live within the boundaries of that school? What happens when the ADA moneys from the parent is lower than the ADA from parents of a different area whose tax rate is higher? Who gets the “Choice”?
Your thoughts around “Homeschooling” allowing parents to “Bank” that allotment (ADA) or a “scale-able educational delivery system” or an “Open, entrepreneurial market” is one that the majority of thoughtful people would dismiss quickly. These ideas would further the divide the “Have’s” and “Have Not’s”.
What money would be banked? What money would be provided for “choice”? Poway is a “Low Wealth” district whose tax rate is extremely low compared to similar districts state wide. The number of Prop 13 protected parcels within the district greatly reduce the ADA provided by the state. Before a real discussion can take place
about changing how education is funded and allowing for “Choice”, the funding of public education needs to be completely re-done. Living as far south as we do, the chances of any substantial changes being made in the positive at Sacramento are about as remove as finding a tagged grouse in Alaska.
The whole idea of choice is made when a parent decides on what community they wish to raise their children. They seek out homes in the school district and community where they want their children to attend school. Many times judging the quality of the education offered and the other offerings within the community.
I understand that Dagnastic. I appreciate you
“The whole idea of choice is made when a parent decides on what community they wish to raise their children. They seek out homes in the school district and community where they want their children to attend school.”s ”
That’s my point. Let poor kids’ go to Poway schools if they want to spend the money.
Open up the boundaries. Let the schools compete; private and public. Let the parents spend the $20K+ the state spends, wherever they choose.
The only “divide” then will be from parents who value education and parents who don’t
The current system is horribly broken–why not try to freedom model instead?
As I articulated at the Poway Unified School District’s Board of Education meeting last night; it’s time for our Board to take action. Trustee TJ Zane and Michelle O’Connor-Ratcliffe are terrified to do the right thing by firing John Collins and Trustee Patapow is incapable of making any decision without the approval of John Collins.
Trustee Zane and Trustee O’Connor-Ratcliffe, I implore you, gain some intestinal fortitude and do the right thing for our community. Fire John Collins. Trustee Patapow, you will be recalled soon so continue to follow John Collins to his professional demise.
Promote Dr. Robertson as the interim Superintendent. Board take 3-6 months and complete a national search for a new Superintendent. You as a Board will find an innovator at half the price we are compensating John Collins. Once you have found our motivated, honest, energetic, educational leader for our community, you will be heroes and you will have done what the community has been asking you to do.
Once our new Superintendent is found and he or she is not a part of the “good ole boy” network of Poway Unified, restore Dr. Robertson to Associate Superintendent. The known and admitted liar and adulterer will be gone and Poway Unified will be restored to true greatness. As a community, we have rested on the laurels of the “Poway” name yet we are riddled with problems stemming from our current leadership in John Collins.
Let’s stop resting on our laurels as Poway Unified School District and tackle our problems honestly and swiftly. The sooner a problem is addressed, the sooner it can be rectified. The problem has been identified time and again. It takes strength to act. I have faith that the right people will develop the strength to made the right decision.
Very Respectfully,
Chris Garnier
Mr. Garnier, Do you not believe you have a conflict of interest in what you are stating. You are currently in a lawsuit with Poway Unified School District seeking monetary damages. How are people suppose to overlook that issue?
RECALL ANDY PATAPOW!
Learn more at http://www.recallpatapow.com
No!
Well, now, those last two points are certainly very enlightening.
Those who enjoy remaining ignorant will not visit the http://www.recallpatapow website and fail to make an informed decision; instead they will throw stones at my family simply because we choose to be the “messenger”. Ignorance is bliss and instead of educating one’s self; people like Dagnastic, who will only post in anonymous form, display their ignorance with simple minded responses like “No.”
You are correct Thor’s Assistant, “Well, now “those last two points are certainly enlightening.”
Translation: not enough people are signing my petition.
Not simple minded Mr. Garnier, I simply have read the articles you’ve posted to your web site. And I admit it, I went to your website. If you offered new information, I would be willing to consider it. I do not attack your family, or attack you. I simply do not see your logic in wasting money (both district and your own) to remove a man destined for retirement. Focus your attentions on the next ellection.
As for your attack on me, I forgive you. As for my anonymity, with the reality of people in our district utilizing personal vendettas to remove people from jobs (John Collins, Andy Patapow, etc.) I prefer to keep my job. My family counts on my income and I’m sure you understand.
I am not ignorant. I do not agree with your positions. If this makes me ignorant in your eyes, I do not apologize.
Dagnastic,
No, you are NOT an ignorant person at all. It’s imperative, necessary and healthy, within our American democracy to disagree and it looks like we do. Your lack of ignorance is apparent through your desire to acquire information instead of solely depending on the rhetoric produced by the district. I also understand your need to remain anonymous. It’s a frightening notion to make one’s opinions public especially at the hands of potential retaliation. Thank you for your response Dagnastic and thank you for not attacking me or my family. Thank you for thoughtfully addressing the issue of the recall, educating yourself in a greater capacity, formulating your own opinion and then, sharing your dissenting opinion. Dissenting opinion is the very fiber that makes our Nation great! Happy New Year to you and your family.
Very Respectfully,
Chris Garnier
A solid article in the Escondido Grapevine, as I was finally able to speak to the Escondido Union School Board about the animal like treatment of Trustee Jose Fragozo. Civil Disobedience is a necessity in order to change status quo and those who choose to live a life with fear of change do not understand the fundamentals of freedom.
The point is that as a younger generation, why our we giving up our freedom at the exspese of the choices of Andy Patapow and John Collins. By the time these men have “met their maker” we will be paying for their blunders and lack of foresight for future generations within our school district.
http://escondidograpevine.com/2016/01/15/escondido-union-school-district-board-gets-curiouser-and-curiouser/
Very Respectfully,
Chris Garnier
Information on the Recall of Mr. Patapow can also be found at the two below web sites…
http://www.recallpatapow.org
http://www.recallpatapow.net
As we suffer through this waste of time, energy and money, I am hopeful voters just say no and pay attention in November 2016, when two members of the PUSD Board of Education are up for re-election. Mr. Patapow has indicated he is stepping away from his 50+ years in education, leaving his seat vacant and up for grabs. Kimberley Beatty will also be up for re-election.
As said by Dagnastic, efforts should be focused on Novembers election, not a recall effort for a man who has 10 1/2 months left in his term.
here’s the wall he should be building….